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Treaty of Vienna (Principia Moderni III Map Game)

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The Treaty of Vienna is a treaty ending the Spanish conquest of the remainder of Austrian Italy as well as the conquests of various other territories by Bavaria and Croatia. This war was caused over various greivances by the Spanish empire over territories not taken during a previous war as well as an attempt to remove Austria as a competitive Colonial empire.

Proposals

Spain

  1. Austria will Cede all remaining portions of Italy to Spain in its entirety fronting all this Territory to the Kingdom of Venezia.
  2. Austria will Cede its territory of Melilia to the Kingdom of Morocco.
  3. The Territories of Gotland and Schleswig will be reverted back to Scandinavia since their integrity as an empire has once again recovered.

Croatia

  1. Austria will cede its remaining coastal territory to the Czardom of Croatia.
  2. The remainder of Austria proper will be (after Spanish and Croatian coastal annexation) split between Bavaria and Croatia, with Bavaria gaining the primarily the northern portion with Vienna and Croatia gaining the south. Croatia's portion will be turned into the Knezdom of Carinthia-Styria (Croatian: Kneževina Koruško-Štajerska)
  3. Hispania and Bavaria will give up any past, present or future claims on the Austrian Isles in the Imperial sea or the Austrian African territory bordering the Croatian Knezdom of Dahomey and Hispanic Protectorate of Kongo and will, if needed, aid Croatia in taking over these territories in the future.
  4. Slovakia and a portion of the Czech will be turned into a vassal of the Hungarian Crown as the Knezdom of Czechoslovakia (Čehoslovačka Kneževina)
  5. Western Hungary will be directly annexed into the Czardom of Croatia which will lead to the Hungarian Crown being bound to the Croatian throne and through extent, Czechoslovakia being boud to the Croatian throne.
  6. Luxembourg will be removed from the HRE (but not necessarily removed from Luxembourg-based Habsburg branch there), as well as all lands gained by Croatia and Hispania.
    ToV&CCC

    Changes made according to approval of all parties (cookie, feud and me). Also contains new colour of the Czardom.

Bavaria

PMIIIVienna.1

Austria's ceded territories in red

  • The Austrian Crown will surrender a sum of 500,000 reichstalers to Bavaria for war indemnity
  • Austria will cede the Crown of Bohemia to Bavaria. The Kingdom of Bohemia will be retained under Bavarian Rule.
  • Austria will cede the vassal of Silesia to Bavaria.
  • Austria will cede the vassal of Salzburg to Bavaria.
  • Austria will cede the vassal of Brandenburg to Bavaria.
  • Austria will cede the vassal of Pomerania to Bavaria.
  • Austria will cede the vassal of Austrian Switzerland to Bavaria.
  • Austria will cede the northern chunk of Austria proper, which includes Vienna, to Bavaria. This new polity will be known as the Kingdom of Osterreich.

Discussion

I was going to try to make my own proposal but I don't want to get in trouble, so I thought I'd just put some discussion up for now. If anything, can we change these things:

  • The part where you agree to invade my colonies again in a few years, even though it's still a violation of Westminster.
  • Removing Luxembourg from the Holy Roman Empire, I have no idea what that even accomplishes.
  • Who is paying 500,000 reichstalers to Bavaria if I don't exist? Is Bavaria just looting that?
  • The stuff about Scandinavia isn't really necessary since in my previous treaty I give the land back in a few years, as Feud assured as a third party. 

Also, as a last ditch attempt, I'd really appreciate not to be annexed haha, but I guess that's out of the question. Mscoree (talk) 13:04, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

About Luxembourg, I really don't know, it just keeps annoying me that a nation is divided from the HRE yet somehow maintained contact. The reichstaler thing is confusing to me too. As for my invasion of any of your colonies, nothing binds me since Croatia didn't sign the treaty and moreover, they might be Austrian-founded colonies but since Austria doesn't really exist it probably won't be a part of Westminster anymore either. SkyGreen24(Party,quotes) 19:01, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

  • This document, the Treaty of Vienna, is time sensitive. Any nations not showing evidence of opposition to the treaty by Sunday, October 12, 01:00 PM UTC (09:00 AM EST) will be considered pleased with the document and shall be considered as a signature.

Hey wait that's not fair. I haven't even read the treaty nor have I signed it yet. Can you please wait until I get home and can talk to you? Mscoree (talk) 15:23, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

The above note is invalid since you objected in the discussion section at 8:00 AM EST, so.. yeah.  Cookiedamage (talk) 15:25, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

Wait, did we not add him to Westminster? If so, then one of the provisions is for colonial land, nowhere in that treaty does it say you can take all of his core land. Of course my memory is fuzzy and I don't remember if he was admitted or not, or what the circumstances were. I just think we should have a quick check just to make things official and tidy. I have no horse in this race, and am nothing more than a casual observer, as my nation is already embroiled in a nasty civil war in the Netherlands.FOR THE GLORY OF THE PARTY! 16:16, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

You seem to have forgot the following part of Westminster

  1. dominance of the west in European politics - Westminster is obviously created to help Britannia, France and Hispania dominate European politics, and by eliminating Austria the dominance is maintained.

As for the fact that it says that nowehre in the treaty does it say you can take all of his core land and it does say this:

  • A major threat to one of the signing powers (does not necessarily mean a lost war, but major annexations and full annexation can be looked at as a reasoning for involvement).

However since the Triple Alliance cannot join in to attack the major threat since one of the members is part of the threat, I doubt this point is valid. And let's not forget that Austria also broke the treaty when it attacked Scandinavia. Austria took away all Scandinavian possessions in the HRE and completely removed Scandinavian influence from the HRE. Just sayin'... SkyGreen24(Party,quotes) 16:33, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

From the Treaty of Westminster page:

"Along with this the signing powers agree that the complete seizure of a nations primary or large colonies will be denoted as unacceptable and if broken the offending nation can be threatened with expulsion from the protections of the treaty, or an invasion that restores control of the major colony to control of its mother country. Minor or Moderate portions of colonies can be ceded depending on their importance to the affected nations colonial empire."

Nowhere does it say that taking a nation's core, non-colonial land is forbidden. Furthermore, as Sky mentioned, the fourth provision of the first article "A major threat to one of the signing powers (does not necessarily mean a lost war, but major annexations and full annexation can be looked at as a reasoning for involvement)." supports an Austrian war and annexation. Cookiedamage (talk) 16:39, October 12, 2014 (UTC)


I do believe I told you I may be wrong, I just alway assumed a more colonial view. I am on my iPad and didn't feel like searching for it. I appreciate the memory refresher course.FOR THE GLORY OF THE PARTY! 16:49, October 12, 2014 (UTC) 

Oct 12 Deadline

As to not drag this treaty into 1654 and delay anything, I am placing a deadline on discussion and negotiating. This deadline will be at 7:30 EST (11:30 UTC), or, thirty (30) minutes before turn end. After 11:30 UTC, the all nations involved will sign by default. There is still roughly five and a half hours left to discuss, negotiate, and sign. Cookiedamage (talk) 17:40, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

And thus, the deadline has been passed. Cookiedamage (talk) 23:33, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

Westminster Violations

Here are a few things that violate Westminster:

  • All signing members will agree that any issues of colonial borders, areas of hegemony/conquest, or specifically claimed areas 'will be handled on all diplomatic channels', or will seek diplomatic mediation for an unbiased power within the treaty, in order to prevent conflict between signing nations of the Treaty.
  • If all else fails War between the two nations in a one versus one fashion to handle the situation regarding the war. The Victor may officially claim the contested territory in terms of an moderate or overwhelming victory. Usage to the full extent of your empire is not forbidden. Note this is in the general war section not just in the Americas/colonies.
  • Along with this the signing powers agree that the complete seizure of a nations primary or large colonies will be denoted as unacceptable and if broken the offending nation can be threatened with expulsion from the protections of the treaty, or an invasion that restores control of the major colony to control of its mother country. Annexing Austria, or even a major part of it, is illegal by the treaty.
  • If a nation has multiple colonial disputes with other treaty members, said members may go to war at the same time with the offending power to assert their claims but they may not go to war in concert (no internal coalitions.) It specifically says, even in a war where all three nations have claims, you can't join together.
  • The balance of power in Europe. Annexing a player so that one nation basically controls all of Germany is the exact opposite of balance of power. Please read up on World War 1. Germany forming in OTL essentially collapsed the concert of Europe, and now Cookie owns almost as much as the German Empire (The majority of Germany, plus Bohemia and Switzerland stuff).
  • In issues which can collapse or destroy signing members of the Treaty. Again annexing, collapsing, or destroying members is strictly prohibited. See Austria's invasion of Scandinavia.'
  • A major threat to one of the signing powers (does not necessarily mean a lost war, but major annexations and full annexation can be looked at as a reasoning for involvement).

So you have completely broken many of the points of Westminster. Also @Sky, Ms didn't break the treaty in the war with Scandinavia. He had a one versus one, and annexed a couple of vassals that he de jure owned already. A major annexation or collapsing treaty (like this one) would have been annexing all of Denmark of Norway. Tr0llis (talk) 21:00, October 12, 2014 (UTC) 

Although not involved, I felt the need to point something out for the sake of plausibility. A treaty is only as strong as the nations that enforce it. If a bunch of nations violate the treaty, and are sufficiently powerful that there's really no way for them to be prevented from doing so, then that's just what happens. There isn't a god of treaty enforcement that will come down from the heavens and reduce the coalition's scores so Austria survives. Treaties mean nothing if they aren't backed up by military power, and clearly this one isn't, at least in this case. Shikata ga nai! 22:39, October 12, 2014 (UTC)

First, can we add an NAP to this as well? Secondly, now that there is a concurrent war that changes the result a lot. Mscoree (talk) 16:29, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

Wait - how come the treaty says Spain will annex the remaining parts of Italy, but then annexes the parts of Italy plus half of Austria? Mscoree (talk) 20:22, October 13, 2014 (UTC)

Signatures

Signatories:

  • Bavaria: Leopold II vo Wittelsbach, King of Bavaria, Grand Duke of Greater Saxony, Duke of Swabia Cookiedamage (talk) 00:15, October 12, 2014 (UTC)
  • Hispania: 
  • Croatia: His Imperial and Royal Apostolic Majesty, by the Grace of God, Czar Juraj I Nelipić, Czar of all Croats and Croatian lands, King of Western Hungary, blessed Protector of Croatian peace and prosperity, Lord of the Eastern Adriatic, King-maker of Western Hungary and Czar of Dahomey SkyGreen24(Party,quotes) 08:59, October 12, 2014 (UTC)
  • Austria: 

Observers: 

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