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Treaty of Kiel (Principia Moderni III Map Game)

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The Treaty of Kiel is a document which formally ended the War of the Elbe, which pitted Bavaria, Scandinavia, Westphalia, and Rome against Hamburg. Hamburg was defeated.


  • Bavaria will receive Madgeburg, Lübeck, a chunk of land in eastern Holstein, and a chunk of land easr of Lübeck . Bavaria will also receive a war indemnity of 100,000 reichstalers paid by Hamburg. A 25 year NAP will be signed between Hamburg and Bavaria.
  • Scandinavia Øresund trading rights awarded to Hamburg will be revoked. A 25 year NAP will be signed between Hamburg and Scandinavia. A war indemnity of 
    100,000 reichstalers will be paid, by Hamburg, to Scandinavia.
  • Westphalia will receive a war indemnity of 35,000 reichstalers, paid by Hamburg.  A 25 year NAP will be signed between Hamburg and Westphalia.
  • Rome will receive a war indemnity of 100,000 reichstalers paid by Hamburg. A 25 year NAP will be signed between Hamburg and Rome.
  • Reme will receive two indemnities: 50,000 reichstalers paid by Hamburg, and 20,000 reichstalers paid by Neu Hamburg.


I don't think that colonial division is going to be allowed. Moscow tried to do that to Pskov and got shot down fast. It just isn't plausible. Mscoree (talk) 19:50, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

IATG, in all honesty, I just want your colony. I will pay a fair sum for it as well as a continuous non-aggression pact. In other words, I will never trouble you again. 

"This is not your grave but you are welcome in it." 19:59, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

If Guy tries to keep some of the colony, I recommend cutting it in half horizontally, rather than trying to engulf it. I think that would make the most sense. Mscoree (talk) 20:15, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

In all honesty, I could take the entire coast and leave the rest to starve and die, but it would be a jerk move to do. Hopefully, I won't have to.

"This is not your grave but you are welcome in it." 20:18, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

As I said above, you cannot do that at all. It is exploiting the game mechanics and not allowed. Mscoree (talk) 20:21, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

Feud said I could, actually, and if you look at it, it makes sense. What am I to take, a city, the only valuable part of the area, or a bunch of uninhabited land?

"This is not your grave but you are welcome in it." 20:42, September 13, 2014 (UTC)

I agree to no enclaves. I am that guy (talk) 03:30, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

I disagree with no enclaves :3 Cookiedamage (talk) 03:32, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Think about this (mods please do as well), what ruler would demand enclaves on the other side of a country it just went to war with, and with whom relations are deteriorating? Cookie, you also can't force me to annex Holstein and Mecklenburg, you won by 7%, not 27%. I am that guy (talk) 21:08, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Are you serious right now??? I beat you the first time, and I beat you the second time, and you're honestly denying terms??? Really??? Cookiedamage (talk) 21:26, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Furthermore, my terms are staying unless a mod tells me to get rid of some of them. Cookiedamage (talk) 21:28, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

First off, you didn't "beat" me in the last war. Remember, you and Crim over-counted your score by 60 points, and it was later reverted to a white peace. This time, you won by a mere 7%. Second, I'm just trying to show you how irrational it is to demand an enclave separated from you by a country you seem Hell-bent on making an enemy out of. Third, since you've taken up your 7% victory by demanding these insane concessions, you have no power left to force me to unite my territory. Hell, if you really wanted to do that, you should be forced to abandon all your other demands, like I said, you won by 7%, not 27%, don't let it go to your head. I am that guy (talk) 22:03, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, first of all, if anyone is letting anything get to your head, it's you. You. fucking. lost. the. war. Even if by 0.0094%, you lost. Second of all, take for example the War of Spanish Succession. It lasted 15 years, from around 1700 to 1714. The war ended in an essential stalemate, however you know what? The new Bourbon King of Spain had to incorporate Aragon and Castile into Spain, as in, he had to completely unify both crowns into one nation, getting rid of the centuries old PU. So really, if the gigantic Spain can do it after a stalemate war, Hamburg can consolidate some vassals after a war they definitely lost. Second of all, that 7% only has to do with land, not any other factors. So yeah, I take 7% of your land and I am going to enforce my other provisions. Cookiedamage (talk) 22:11, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

After discussing the matter with Feud and Mp, we've come up with a treaty we three believe is fair:

  • Bavaria will be ceded Magdeburg, and paid 100,000 Reichstalers. 20 year NAP.
  • Scandinavia will be ceded Lübeck and paid 100,000 Reichstalers. 20 year NAP.
  • Rome will be paid 100,000 Reichstalers. 20 year NAP.
  • Hesse will be paid 20,000 Reichstalers. 20 year NAP.
  • Reme will be ceded the territory allocated for it, and paid 70,000 Reichstalers.
  • There will be no unification.

I am that guy (talk) 22:46, September 14, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, lemme post my provisions:

  • Bavaria will receive Madgeburg, Lübeck, and the remaining coastal portions of Stade, locking Hamburg out from the rest of the North Sea.. 100,000 Reichstalers, and a 25 year NAP.
  • Scandinavia will receive 100,000 Reichstalers and a 25 year NAP,
  • Rome will be paid 100,000 Reichstalers and a 25 year NAP.
  • Westphalia will be paid 100,000 reichstalers and a 25 year NAP.
  • Reme will be ceded the territory allocated for it, and paid 90,000 Reichstalers.
  • Hamburg-Holstein-Mecklenburg will consolidate Holstein, to make Hamburg-Mecklenburg. This will mean that Holstein can not be an L in an algo. It will only be Hamburg (L) and Mecklenburg (L).

Cookiedamage (talk) 23:01, September 14, 2014 (UTC) 

I'm sorry to bring this up, but I've found a mistake. The 7% is the maximum territory you can take in this war, provided it lasted long enough. About an hour after I signed, I recalled the second equation for the result, (p)*(1-1/(2x)), where p is the maximum allowed territory, and x is the length of the war. So our equation looks like this (7)*(1-1/(2(2))), or simply: (7)*(0.75). Punching this into the calculator, we get 5%. So we are going to need to redo this, and I will remove my signature until we do. I am that guy (talk) 07:00, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

I have talked to Feud on the matter, and he agrees with my result. I am that guy (talk) 00:41, September 16, 2014 (UTC)

A message from his majesty, Blessed King Wilhelm V von Wittelsbach, 3rd King of Westphalia, Lord of East Trier, East Cologne, Mainz, and the Palatine, 10th Supreme Governor of the Ludwigist Church, Long may he reign.

I am tired of getting the short, hand me down ends of every deal. I demand at least 100,000 in war reparations. My father spent my family fortune as well as what remained of Westphalia's treasury on this war and the mere 15,000 will not do anything. I also demand that the treaties in which we pay large sums of our income to Hamburg also be annulled. I will not stand for my domain to be milked of its treasures until it is completely destroyed, and then thrown away like trash! Glory to Westphalia! ~ Signed, King Wilhelm V von Wittelsbach

(That was an in-character thing, don't take it as me actually demanding all this stuff, purely trying to act out Wilhelm V's personality. ) 

Blocky858 (talk) 04:33, September 16, 2014 (UTC)


  • Franz-Albert II, King of Bavaria, Grand Duke of Greater Saxony, Duke of Swabia-Württemberg, Count of All Personal Realms Cookiedamage (talk) 03:33, September 14, 2014 (UTC)


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