Treaty of Constantinople (Principia Moderni III Map Game)

The Treaty of Constantinople was the treaty that ended the conflict between the Tripartite Pact and the forces of the allied coalition. 

Concerning India

Territorial

• India shall be partitioned into four independent nations on the basis of religion or culture as described below. 
• The Kingdom of the Punjab will be established around the Punjab and Indus regions. This country will be occupied by the Roman Empire for a period of 15 years to establish a competent government as well as train the new nation's military. 
• The Kingdom of Burma will be re-established in the Buddhist majority regions in eastern India. This country will be occupied by the Commonwealth of Borealia for a period of 15 years to establish a competent government as well as train the new nation's military. 
• The Republic of Dravidia will be established in the Hindu majority regions in southern India. This country will be occupied by the Kingdom of Spain for a period of 15 years to establish a competent government as well as train the new nation's military.
• The Empire of India will remain in the Muslim majority areas of the center of the subcontinent. However, the government will be reconstituted accordingly as follows below. This region will be occupied by the three major powers for a period of ten years to ensure local stability. 
• Aceh and other Indian lands or vassals on and around the island of Sumatra will be ceded to the Spanish West Indies. 
• The Andaman and Maldive Islands will be confirmed as Borealian territory. 

Financial

• The treasury of the Empire of India will be divided amongst the three great powers and the four successor states. 

Political

• The current government of the Empire of India will be dissolved and a new government will be instituted in its place. This government will be a constitutional parliamentary monarchy.
• The capital of the Empire of India will be moved from Calcutta to Mahmudpur.
• The leaders of the current government as well as members of the current royal family of India will be exiled to a country to be later determined. 
• Punjab, Dravidia, India, and Burma will acknowledge the borders established by this treaty as the new borders of the land and will respect them as such. The signatories of this treaty are obligated to intervene against any signatory who tries to alter the border or otherwise invade another signatory without cause to belief imminent threat is at hand.

Concerning the Caliphate

Territorial

• The Grand Principality of Assyria will expand down to the coast of the Persian Gulf and incorporate that land within itself. The Grand Principality of Assyria will be reformed into the Kingdom of Mesopotamia, assimilating many of the current Assyrian political structures. Roman troops shall be stationed in Mesopotamia for a period of ten  years to assist in reconstruction and local stability. 
• The Zoroastrian region of Hycania shall be granted independence. Roman and Tartar troops will be stationed in Hycania for a period of five years to establish local stability. 
• The regions of Azerbaijan and Turkestan will be ceded to the Tartary. 
• The regions of Persia, Balochistan, possibly Tajikistan, and eastern Kurdistan shall be granted independence as the Iranian Empire. Troops will only be stationed in the Iranian Empire if the Iranian government requests. 
• The region of Somalia will be granted independence. 
• Ethiopia shall annex the remainder of the region of Eritrea. 
• The island of Socotra will be returned to the Roman Empire. In addition lands east of Sinai and south of Syria will be ceded to the Roman Empire.
• The remainder of the Caliphate will be reformed into the Sultanate of Arabia. 
• Coalition troops will occupy the Hejaz and the Gulf coast for a period of ten years to ensure local stability. 

Financial

• The treasury of the Caliphate will be divided amongst the various successor states.

Political

• Mesopotamia will inherit Assyria's spot in the Holy League. Hycania will also join the Holy League. 
• The Sultanate of Arabia will maintain the office of Caliph as a purely religious office. The Caliph will be elected from members of the various Arabian dynasties related to Mohammed by the new Shura Council of Mecca. 
• The Sultanate of Arabia shall be a parliamentary constitutional monarchy headed by the Rashidi dynasty. 
• The capital of the Sultanate of Arabia shall be Mecca. 
• The various signatories of this treaty will acknowledge the borders of this treaty and refrain from attempting to alter them by any means. 

Concerning Germany 

Territorial

A good portion of these were told to me by others, so if you object to them, don't hate on me please.  *The region of Alsace-Lorraine will be ceded to France.

• The region of Venezia and Trentino will be ceded to Lombardy.
• A strip of the borderland near the north Rhine will be ceded to the Netherlands.
• The region of the Memelland will be ceded to Lithuania.
• The region of New Brunswick and the city of New Hamburg will be ceded to the Reman Empire.
• The region of Kuba will be granted independence and join the UBH.
• The region of Belize will be granted independence and join the UBH.
• The region of Neu Norderney will be granted independence and join the UBH.
  • Neu Norderney will sign an NAP with Algonquia and guarantee the welfare of its native population.
• The Canary Islands will join the Spanish protectorate of Morocco.
• The territory of German West Africa will join Spanish West Africa.
• The region of Borneo will join the Spanish West Indies.
• The territory of Kamerun will be ceded to Brazil.
• The region of New Rugia will join the Union of Australia.
• All arctic territories, including Greenland and Svalbard, plus Neu Juist, will be ceded to Algonquia.

Financial

• The treasury of Germany will be divided between the German successor state, independent states formed out of German territory and the victorious powers, in the form of reparations.

Political

• The present German government will be dissolved and new one in the form of a constitutional parliamentary monarchy with a new German royal family will be put in its place.
• Germany will be occupied jointly by the great powers in this treaty as well as the Roman Empire, who will act as a neutral mediator between the victorious powers and Germany.
• This occupation will continue for 15 years, upon which the various powers will withdraw from Germany and Germany will join the Holy League so that an extremist expansionist government will not emerge unchallenged.

Concerning World Peace and Stability

This is for UN stuff that I haven't really talked to anyone about yet, so that part comes later. 

Signatories

Concerning the Caliphate

• Roman Empire - "This is not your grave but you are welcome in it." 00:01, August 13, 2015 (UTC)
• The Caliphate -
• The Tartary - 
• Mesopotamia - 
• Arabia - 
• Iran - 
• Somalia - 
• Ethiopia - 
• Hycania - 

Concerning Germany

• Germany: I was Normandy in PM2. It was great. (talk) 20:24, August 15, 2015 (UTC)
• Rome:
• France:
• Spain:
• Andea:
• Algonquia: ᐊ ᒋᐟᕀ ᐃᐣ ᕒuᐢᓯᐊ 02:32, August 16, 2015 (UTC)
• Reme:
• Brazil:
• Neu Norderney: Callumthered (talk) 01:21, August 16, 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Concerning India

The Treaty seems all right. However, there are particular demands of the Treaty that are implausible and can not exist on historical basis.

• The Kingdom of the Punjab will be established around the Sikh homeland areas of the Punjab and Indus regions. This country will be occupied by the Roman Empire for a period of 15 years to establish a competent government as well as train the new nation's military.

It should be important to note that whilst Sikhism is entered around Punjab, the Sikhs historically were a minority in Punjab. Hence, a Sikh state in Punjab can not really exist unless the Roman Empire plans on genociding and expelling the entire Muslim populace to supposedly facilitate the creation of a Sikh state. Doing so would naturally result in rebellions and start insurgencies which under plausible circumstances would succeed. Basically, a Sikh state can not exist in a long run as its birth would be marred with violence and its economy would naturally collapse. The Sikhs represent less than 10% of the population for Punjab. If anything, create a Punjab state over a 'Sikh state'. The former would actually make sense. Dividing India culturally, instead of religiously.

• The Andaman Islands will be confirmed as Borealian territory. A military and rocket base will be given to Borealia in the Maldives, which will be part of Dravidia.

The islands of Maldives are not culturally, religiously, linguistically or ethnically similar to Dravidia. Hence, it would lack any sense for Maldives to be handed over to the nation of Dravidia.

• The capital of the Empire of India will be moved from Calcutta to Delhi.

The decision lacks any sense no matter how one looks at it. Calcutta has been developed as an international economic centre, and a major port in Asia. It has also been the administrative capital of India for at least a 100 years. In comparison, Delhi has not served as an administrative capital since it was briefly held by the Mughals in 1400s. After that, the city of Delhi remained part of Jaunpur albeit not as their capital. Following that, it was held by the Suris in 1700s who however had their capital in Kabul. Hence, Delhi isn't an administrative centre capable of holding together India. It is no more than a rotting city that once served as the heart of the Delhi Sultanate.

• The Timurids will return to take the throne of the Empire of India.

The Timurids have no claim to India, and would under no circumstances be accepted by the Indian populace. The Timurids and their Mughal descendants fled to Eire and later Croatia when they were defeated in 1500s, and that is when the Timurid chapter in India was closed. They have no supporter base and have absolutely no importance. Appointing Timurids as Monarchs for India would be no different than a Palaiologos being appointed as ruler for Turkey after WWI.

               The night is dark and full of terrors. 

What about Australia in the Indian bit? ~ AH28

I agree with Rimp here. I propose the following changes (which he agrees with me on chat):

• Cede the Maldives to Borealia
• Keep the royal family of India the same
• Keep Punjab as part of India Kingdom of Punjab is still a thing, but not Sikh.
• Move the capital to Mahmudpur instead of Delhi.

--Nathan1123 (talk) 17:32, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

Concerning the Caliphate

France would like to be given control of Somalia, as this nation will most likely fall into piracy.

I don't think Mecca would be a great capital. Maybe Riyadh or Jeddah or Dubai or something would be better.

Riyadh would not be the capital, because it would've been an underdeveloped or most likely a non-existent state in Central Arabia. The same is to be said about Dubai.                The night is dark and full of terrors. 

Concerning Germany

I'm fine with all the territorial cessions of Germany. However, I'm irked by the financial and some of the political provisions.

First, why is the German treasury being partitioned and cut up when Germany itself is remaining a united, unbroken country? I talked to MP about it, and he just said that's what people told him.

Secondly, I can live with a governmental dissolution and a new one taking its place, but a monarchy? Why? Why put in place a monarchy when most of the nations fighting me, most prominently Republican France, are non-monarchies?

Thirdly, I don't really trust any of the major powers to occupy German territory without pulling something shifty. Thank Spar for this post on Fritz's talk page, asking to annex the part of German territory he would be occupying.

Finally, I think the post-war occupation period is too long. I'm fine with ten years, but 15 is too long. Again I am still highly untrustworthy of any of the occupying powers not sticking by their word and acting wholly implausible and/or break the rules. I'm also curious as to why Germany must join the Holy League. If it's assurance that Germany won't be subjected to implausible, meta-gaming, gang bang wars, I'm fine with it, but if it's for any other reason, I'm wary.

Those are all my grievances, and I'm much more pleased with this Treaty rather than the implausible, "let's cut up Germany because the mods are inactive" Geneva Treaty. I was Normandy in PM2. It was great. (talk) 22:12, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

I'd like some land for Algonquia, considering I was involved and contributed to a fair degree. I'm not sure why this was changed from the previous treaty. ᐊ ᒋᐟᕀ ᐃᐣ ᕒuᐢᓯᐊ 22:29, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

What is the point of making a second treaty about Germany? Most of the terms on here are already on the Treaty of Geneva. Also if it's any consolation, Cookie, I disregarded that message from Spar and didn't put it into the treaty for a reason. And meanwhile people complain that I tried to "make everyone Brazil's bitch" with the first treaty, when this one makes Germany join the Roman sphere basically. Also, why is the proposed cold war with Japan and not Rome, come to think of it? Fritzmet (talk) 22:32, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

The first treaty was absolutely ridiculous and Crim, Sine, Sky, and MP have all said on Facebook (oh wait, Edge proclaimed that Facebook isn't a "valid" means of communication) that Geneva was not a suitable treaty at all. Considering that Britannia, Russia and possibly Silesia and Poland have been retconned, as well as numerous other problems with the algos, a new treaty is a better solution. And Fritz, I'm wary of the Roman sphere business as well. I was Normandy in PM2. It was great. (talk) 22:41, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

Why didn't the Netherlands get any lands?~Tao64

France demands control of it's zone of occupation as a part of France itself. It also demands colonies in Kuba and Belize.

Andea rejects any treaty that doesn't have Kuba and Belize as free nations. Andea also proclaims that it will protect these new nations with our blood.

Out of character, Cookie, As I have said, those nations don't change the fact that Germany collapses.  And Andea also rejected Geneva. #PraiseRoosevelt. 18:40, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

Kuba and Belize are certainly going independent after the war, and France's demands are wholly unrealistic and not supported by any member of the treaty (or so I assume). I was Normandy in PM2. It was great. (talk) 19:13, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

Personally, I'm happy to let Oldenburg retain Svalbard and Greenland; I'd much rather take Neu Norderney and Neu Juist, which are geographically attached to my nation and were the areas I actually invaded during the war. ᐊ ᒋᐟᕀ ᐃᐣ ᕒuᐢᓯᐊ 22:50, August 10, 2015 (UTC)

Neu Norderney is an essentially homogeneous Germanic state, which simply would not fit within Algonquia, and really should be independent. Neu Juist (which is essentially entirely made up of the Beothuk Autonomous Territory), on the other hand, is ripe for an Algonquian annexation. The Arctic/Atlantic territories, whilst homogeneously Germanic, have minuscule populations and could be easily integrated. On a personal note, I would like to play as NN for the remainder of the game if I could (which, I know, is a meta reason). Callumthered (talk) 02:17, August 11, 2015 (UTC)

You bring up good points, although after a world war not much can deter a major belligerent from annexing neighboring territory. I'm not against letting you play as Neu Norderney, and I don't think that's necessarily meta. Whether independent or part of Algonquin, perhaps Kras would let you play as it. Fritzmet (talk) 02:32, August 11, 2015 (UTC)

Just going to point out that despite what Guy may want, Kuba and Belize are going to be separated most likely. I am personally not against keeping them united, but the plan discussed had them going separate. Also, I'm pretty sure that Kuba and Belize are joining Second Hesperian League, but that might not be true. #PraiseRoosevelt.

So my preferences with regard to Germany's Borealian territories are as follows: Neu Juist, Svalbard and Greenland annexed by Algonquia, Neu Norderney demilitarized, joins the UBH, and accepts a republican form of government with seats in its parliament reserved for natives and Algonquian oversight of its foreign affairs and treatment of its native population. ᐊ ᒋᐟᕀ ᐃᐣ ᕒuᐢᓯᐊ 23:54, August 12, 2015 (UTC)

• Neu Norderney has had those provisions for natives, plus an autonomous province, for quite a while now. I am that guy (talk) 23:57, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
• Yes, as I've said, you can have Neu Juist, Svalbard, and Greenland. I am willing to demilitarise, to an extent; all I ask is for token armed forces for ceremonial, border protection, and natural disaster duties (and taking part in peacekeeping for the UN eventually). The parliament, as Guy has pointed out, has already had such seats since the Beothuk crisis. NN even has separate traditional tribal courts for any native charged with any crime. Therefore, I naturally accept that condition, since it's already been fulfilled. The one thing I will not accept is republican government. The Lord has been a part of NN since its founding way back in the 1500s. It is a constitutional monarchy anyway, but I am willing to further weaken his status by following the lead of Japan after WWII otl, by giving him next to no power (even reserve powers). I am also willing for Conrad IX to abdicate in favour of his young son Conrad X. To be honest though, the republican thing doesn't make that much sense as a request, since the Lord of NN played no role in starting the war. Callumthered (talk) 01:30, August 13, 2015 (UTC)

Let's clarify what I want here. You surrendered and are presumably occupied. Neu Norderney is the most significant strategic threat to Algonquia, as an independent and unfriendly nation close to its major population centres. I'm not going to let a government and set of leaders who just led a war against Algonquia remain in power - Neu Norderney needs to be neutralized as a threat for the conceivable future. That means significant limits on its freedom of action. The key points are that Algonquia gets oversight of Neu Norderney's foreign policy and, to prevent reprisals for the war, treatment of its native population. By demilitarized, I was mainly referring to a guarantee that foreign troops wouldn't be allowed into Neu Norderney without Algonquian consent. ᐊ ᒋᐟᕀ ᐃᐣ ᕒuᐢᓯᐊ 15:39, August 13, 2015 (UTC)

I would hardly say Neu Norderney is a threat to Algonquia on its own, that just sounds paranoid. Second of all, Neu Norderney didn't lead the war, Cal's the most innocent person present. Thirdly, you were the one who declared war on Neu Norderney, Kras, not vice versa. All us German players have wanted with the new world players is peaceful coexistence. We haven't sought expansion in any way in the new world for 150 years (and the last expansion of any kind was my purchase of Kuba from Britannia). Cal isn't a threat to you, Kras, and he sure as hell doesn't deserve to be turned into a vassal, especially not when he's complied with all your requests regarding treatment of natives. I am that guy (talk)

That's true, Kras, you do need to get your facts right on who declared war on (and invaded!) whom. And also, how am I an unfriendly nation? I have been nothing but accommodating with you since the beginning. When you (let's be honest here) made up a native uprising for your own political gain, I played ball, giving the natives more rights than in any otl nation I think ever. When WWII broke out, I made it clear I had no negative intentions towards you (little use that was but still). All I ask is to be able to live out my last fifty-odd days in the game as an independent NN. And if in-game it's the leaders who a problem, as I've said, Conrad IX can abdicate in favour of his son. Heck, the entire wartime government could be sacked. That would achieve the requisite getting rid of the wartime leaders. And really, if it's insurance for reprisals against you for the war you need (a need no doubt driven by your guilty conscience, which can not forgive you for invading a peaceful and friendly neighbour ;) ), you can rest easy, in any algo NN would be crushed (not to mention the fact it's been made to join the UBH, which presumably has some sort of collective security clause). Tell you what though, as a gesture to show I'm genuine about wanting peaceful cooperation, how about if I ever seem to be making a treaty, etc., which you deem to be a threat to your national security, just chuck me a diplomacy in-game and we'll sort it out. Deal? Callumthered (talk) 20:35, August 13, 2015 (UTC)

I've never denied being the aggressor in this war (or generally trying to infringe on Neu Norderney's territory and sovereignty over the past hundred years). It's all part of the native revanchist thing. To be fair, I only declared war once I saw Germany was obviously being toppled so I could grab some choice bits of Oldenburg. But my main concern is ensuring that Neu Norderney isn't used as a base for attacking Algonquia by foreign powers (say, a resurgent and angry Germany), and that it doesn't start killing its native population as potential fifth columnists. If you can provide me with guarantees ensuring that that will be the case, we've got a deal. I don't feel it necessary that any abdication happen, since the Lord is, as you said, a figurehead; the civilian government, on the other hand, I would prefer to be replaced, since it led the country during the war. ᐊ ᒋᐟᕀ ᐃᐣ ᕒuᐢᓯᐊ 20:46, August 13, 2015 (UTC)

Deal. I will absolutely guarantee that I will never allow either of those things to happen. I'll also make the Lord abdicate in favour of his son, and we can sign a perpetual non-aggression pact as well. I look forward to the start of a peaceful and fruitful relationship with Algonquia! Callumthered (talk) 23:09, August 13, 2015 (UTC)