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  • Figured that I'd get this on here before I forgot about it again.

    If anyone has questions or anything about the timeline, areas for new nations, etc., post here.

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    • I'm not really sure mate :L

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    • So, Maryland. Is there anywhere in Maryland that could become its own nation? I know about Delmarva and, obviously Central Maryland would be full of radiation. But would there be a place where radiation was low enough to be inhabitable? Even for just a city-state or something?

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    • Unfortunately, the only two areas that were left without excessive radiation were the Delmarva Peninsula in the east, and parts of the three most northwestern counties. The problem there, for you at least, is that the former is part of Delmarva and the latter is part of Virginia.

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    • Well, I'll find something eventually.

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    • Where can I put a nation within the UK? If anywhere

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    • MyBritNation (DD)
      Me and Feg had plans for a gypsy state in the UK which we never got round to making. If you want, I might be able to work with you to create it here. Here is a picture of where we planned to situate it.
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    • Which one is it?

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    • See the small one in the two triangles? The dark yellow is the main nation, light yellow the areas which are indirectly controled and light yellow is influence.

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    • OK

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    • Where is London?

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    • on this map

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    • I was going to place a nation in the UK a while back, and was told it had reached the limit as far as nations were concerned and that anymore would be implausible. Just saying...

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    • OK, I just want to make a nation, where is left on the map?

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    • Just wannah ask how is american kingdom obs. also we need a 1983 doomsday map game. Or mabye a 1983 doomsday II so all new nations.

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    • The thing is, a 1983: Doomsday II wouldn't make sense. We have to keep in mind that this is a timeline like any other, not a Map Game. We can't just restart it or make a new one. This is held to a higher standard than map games as well, we can't just make any nation as we please.

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    • Still have to say that Gypsy idea doesn't work.

      London on that map is where the green, burgundy, and pink meet.

      Local, where in the world do you have in mind?

      Seriously Oct? I have told you several times what the problem there is. You don't get it, I think.

      There will not be a map game, or a "II".

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    • I don't really mind, somewhere English speaking

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    • One of the Caribbean islands (atl, members of the East Caribbean Federation) would work, and there's a few areas of the USA where it's not impossible.

      There's a bunch of stubs around the world that you could try and adopt, too, that would meet that goal.

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    • Like what

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    • ~Local

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    • You'd have to give an area/preference for that one.

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    • Is the south of France really radioactive? There are no nations there as far as I can see

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    • Towards the west, a bit. There's an area roughly centered between Auvergne, Monaco, and Andorra that something small could conceivably exist, I think, in the northern parts of the French region of Languedoc-Roussillon, in/around the department of Lozère. The geography of that area would support such a proposal, though it would need to be small in order to not conflict with what we know about the other states around it.

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    • OK

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    • Local is it okay if we make that page together

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    • Fine

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    • What should I call it?

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    • I had the idea that it is a coalition of the little sort of Fortified Villages that they have there, and they have banded together for protection

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    • The nuke map shows the Auvergne or something near there was nuked. I assume that would mean that whatever was hit is now gone

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    • Has anyone seen the movie BBC movie "Threads?" Starting with a nuclear conflict in around the year 1984 (when the movie was made,) it traces what would happen during the next 13 years in Britain (staring off in the city of Sheffield.)

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    • No, it wasn't nuked. I'd guess that you mean one of the maps on the France page, which are mildly misleading. They're meant to show some sort of indication of how well the various French states control their territory and areas with contamination. Problem is, neither of those is at all accurate. The area I supplied should be free, more or less, of fallout and refugees. don't worry about the maps much.

      Yes, anon, we're well aware of that movie. More accurate than most media of that nature, though still with problems.

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    • I meant the map that shows what had been hit by 2+ ICBMs

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    • Ahh. That map is even worse for accuracy.

      No, even that map doesn't show any strikes near Auvergne.

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    • Near the mid bottom of... Nevermind then

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    • There are no articles about South Slavia and the Islamic Republic of Morocco

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    • I propose (in the environment of this Alternative History) that the LoN makes a series of expeditions in the zones affected by the atomic bombs, in order to get knowledge of these zones in the current times (and see which bombed cities are now able to reconstruction and repopulation).

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    • ..And?

      The IRM is very clearly labeled on maps of Morocco that are on articles in that area. South Slavia is what Macedonia was supposed to evolve into following the end of Serbia. Author kind of dropped off the face of the earth after that war ended, really. Going to put it back to "Macedonia" on the next map version.

      We've been over this before, Hall. Going to be decades before the radiation falls enough for that.

      Most of those zones have been looked over by plane by now.

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    • Just let him make a people expiditioN

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    • Octavian, no one would be stupid enough to go there because *ahem* all the members of the expedition would die mere hours after entering the radiation zones.

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    • Exactly. There is not one thing about that idea that makes sense, OM.

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    • Well I have one idea they where suits

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    • ... beacause a) those are so easy to manufacture and b) those would certainly help against that level of radiation for prolonged periods.

      Let me put it this way; With a full on rad suit, you still cannot even come close to the reactor at Chernobyl; and that was a thousandth of the rads from here.

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    • Look at Hisorma and Nagasaki

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    • Those were over 70 years ago, and the nukes used were tiny. These are much larger weapons, and only 30 years ago. THERE IS NO COMPARISON.

      And BTW it is Hiroshima.

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    • Suits? Not only are those very hard to manufacture, but they are just about useless against any real levels of radiation.

      The doses at the blast zones are worse than Chernobyl. Even with suits, they'd get nowhere near them. And, again: They'd have gone over these sites with planes long ago.

      Hiroshima and Nagasaki were minuscule does of radiation. It was gone within a few hours, imo. We're talking decades at best here, and more likely centuries.

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    • OK, OK, I understand. Excuse my ignorance, but you must understand that I don't know much about radioactivity.

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    • I was just thinking, wouldn't people risk there life for that.

      Erenst  shackleton ploar expadtion had 20,000 aplliancants.

      Even tough his poster Implicitly said Little chance of survival.

      [1]

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    • And? That is little chance. This is no chance.

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    • Octavian, do us all a favour, hmm? Shut up.

      You're making no sense at all. *Ahem* WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING IS EFFECTIVELY SUICIDE. 

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    • Guns, i honestly just campanged on the behafe of the expadition because it would shut that dude up, untill i became emothanly atracted to it.

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    • 'That dude' made one or two posts on the subject, and has now admitted he was wrong. Now he admits so. Yet you're still arguing.

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    • Emothanly? Emotionally?

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    • No problem, Hal.

      Shackleton was an explorer of great renown, imo, and that was in an era where the idea had a lot of "romantic" enthusiasm. Even more importantly, such things had been done and were known to be quite survivable. Exploring the blast zones? Not even remotely any of this.

      Guns, that comment was in no way justified.

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    • Mikelima777
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      16:35, September 17, 2013
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    • What happened to the WCRB updates?

      It stopped at the end of May 2013, and hasnt been updates for quite a while?

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    • The 30th anniversary of Doomsday is coming. Any activity to "commemorate" this?

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    • Each editor updates the newspage with news at their discretion. Comes and goes, with a lot of news backdated.

      Hal, there will be something, I assure you.

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    • I have a question: in the environment of this Alternative History, how is the current situation for the international media broadcasting (specially sattelite comunications and shortwave international radio) and the international air transportation? Thanks in advance.

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    • Pretty much all satellites from before DD are either burned out of orbit, or non-functional. A small number have been launched in the last few years by Siberia, the SAC, and the ANZC, but that's it. Despite being similar construction to pre-DD sats, these ones will probably not last as long due to orbital conditions, too.

      Shortwave radio, quite limited. With the Sats down, the hurts their range, as does the lack of repeaters on the ground - the repeaters in place prior to DD are in many ways useless right now, between damage and a lack of maintenance. The repeaters, though are being rebuilt/repaired, and in some areas would be operational for long distances, most notably in the NAU and Siberia. Past that, you'd have higher-range transmitters and receivers in some of the better off areas of the world (i.e. ANZC and SAC, and able to bounce off the atmosphere somewhat) able to be used as well, but not really on a commercial level. There would still be a small amount of atmospheric interference up there with regards to "bouncing" like this, too.

      International Air Travel exists, though toned down from otl. Regular flights would exist between the countries that are better off, though the ones doing worse (and the smaller states, overall, too) would not have this.

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    • I was wondering where could I make a nation. I was thinking a isolated "New Switzerland" anywhere

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    • You mean like a "neutral" state?

      Give me a general location. Continent, region, etc.

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    • I would like Western Europe, Midwest, or the caribbean.

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    • Nowhere in the Caribbean.

      Western Europe... There's several states without any articles on them, but given what is known about them, only one would meet your specifications outright, and another may be close. The Consell(Council) of Olot (near Andorra) would work well, and the Earldom of Bragança in northeastern Portugal might work to some degree too.

      About the only other thing I can think of in that area is that a very small state based in the French city of Agen might be possible. not as good as Olot, though.

      Only things I can think of in the Midwest would be violent, at best.

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    • Lg are u sure that there is no spot in the Caribbian, and I will take Agen.

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    • All islands are accounted for.

      Honestly, Olot would work best. Agen being a state like you describe would be hard at best, imo.

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    • I was wondering if I could make Sealand, it will be a neutral gambling place. Also is Elba takin.

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    • LG, the gypsy idea doesn't work? Why not - it seems to be a good idea.

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    • Virtually none of the things that Feg said would make up that state would be there.

      Plus, it would have to deal with the TBA, and radiation from Birmingham.

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    • Another idea down the drainhole. :(

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    • Is Elba taken and what do people think of sealand

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    • Did Sealand exist in 1983?

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    • Apologies, Oct. Forgot about your last post, lol.

      Elba is part of the Tuscan Republic.

      Sealand was "founded" in 1967. Been discussed before, actually. Basically, given the state of it today otl, and that supplies, fuel, etc., have to be shipped in, it would be uninhabitable, and the residents fled - consensus was they would probably leave for Woodbridge within a year of DD. The descendants of the owner would still hold formal title to it today.

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    • I could still be as dependent in OTL but maybe it could be a Woodbridege protectorate, but still somewhat independent so it can be like Manaco, casino, tax haven, and very rich.

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      • Monaco
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    • I was also wondering is the city of Minneapolis available

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    • Nuked wasn't it?

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    • No way i'd be a protectorate. About the equivalent of a private manor, if anything. Possible that it's been restored by the Bates family by this time, mind, serving as their residence.

      Plus, there's already a gambling mecca in the former UK at Matlock.

      Minneapolis was indeed nuked.

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    • Minneaplois was nuked, that is a shame, i could make a community of surivors kinda like the empire in New york

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    • The "Empire" is not in NYC, imo.

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    • The empire is around northern Yonkers if I remember right. Far enough away from Manhattan for survival to be possible, but close enough that the number of survivors would be very few.

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    • And then there's that Star Wars thing (or was that the Empire you were referring to?).

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    • Yep, that's the empire.

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    • Ahh.

      Isn't there also some Confederation of Outer States or somesuch?

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    • You mean the Outer Lands, I assume - closest that is to NYC is eastern Long Island.

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    • Ahh. Ok, then.

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    • I am working on this project, any comments or additions, NOT CONDRDICTING anything on the page would be appceated. Sealand (1983: Doomsday)

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    • We were rather clear that is isn't possible, imo.

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    • I am trying to make it be a bulid up

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    • Oct, actually, could I take that over? I have an amazing plan... I'll run it by you if you agree.

      Basically, it turns into a gigantic piracy base, preying on ships from the NU or Canada going to the rest of the ADC.

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    • Nice idea

      My vision could be in exile on a ship

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    • Guns I made a page for your idea, occupying the sister forts of Sealand Federation of the Thames (1983: Doomsday)

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    • Exile on a ship? Are you ****ting me? IF bates survived, he would be in Woodbridge. Even the Wikipedia article says it was a publicity stunt. The talk page or the article, I don't recall, but still. In a nuclear apocalypse, Bates would be in Woodbridge. Undeniably

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    • ^

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    • That pirate idea isn't remotely plausible, imo.

      And Local hits it right on the head.

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    • Quick question, has anyone made a page for The Proclaimers? And was Auchtermuchty nuked?

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    • No page for them yet. Possible they survived.

      No, no detonations there. Fallout from elsewhere should be minimal, too.

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    • They were, I think, there at the time

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    • Seems likely.

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    • Can I join 1983:DD? I'm planning to make a nation between Shangxi, Henan and Hebei named Jin.
      Screen Shot 2013-12-07 at 下午2.50.25
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    • If a state called the Jin ever existed there, it would have been overrun by the PRC a long time ago. That state is sadly not possible.

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    • Also, Hubei overdates it, and would overlap.

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    • Hell guys. I am new on this and I decided to create a page for a nation that inhabits my county.


      http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:1983:_Doomsday#British_Broadcasting_Network


      If you go all the way down, you will find the Federal Republic of Saint Joachim.

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    • Wrong place to leave it; It should be in the Proposal area; but no worries, I've got it.

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    • LOL, sorry about that. Just new to navigating on here. Thank you.

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    • Hubei isn't really what would overlap - the PRC, however... that would, a bit.

      Imp is right, however - the PRC has been aggressively going out and about. They'd have destroyed it.

      You know, Guns, if you're going to move it, you should actually move it instead of copying it ;) No worries

      Shadow, says right at the top of the page ;)

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    • Then which country do you think I should make in OTL China

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    • Hmm... Can I join this timeline? I wanna create an article about a nation that includes the area between Charleston (SC) and Wilmington (NC). Suggestions on the name?

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    • Well, for one the Yunnan will need to be upgraded because me and Yank had expanded on the page. Turns out he only wrote up to 2002 and so we got the chance to add more things into the page. Not complete yet, though. I got a lot of things on my list so that is a problem.

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    • Should I continue the Yunnan one then?

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    • I got the Scavengers Alliances, under the control of Osama bin Laden. They control western US coast, southern China, save the nation's already there, and are settling eastern Europe and parts of Spain, ( not the country) each area is ruled by a different chieftain, with Osama bin Laden in over all control. 

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    • Southern China is already full of countries

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    • Not entirely. Look at the map. There are some parts around the coast that are scavenger territory.

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    • And those are radioactive. 

      Bin Laden couldn't do jacksh*t in half those areas. Possibly a small part of Afghanistan?

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    • Ninja, there really isn't anywhere in China for anything substantial. The space that seems to be one there really isn't there - either they are heavily raided, would have been conquered, or have been very extensively fought over.

      About the only idea I have for you at this point is an article on something in easternmost Inner Mongolia. Would really not be that much of a state, though.

      Master, that area is more or less a write-off. Between refugees from those two cities, and fallout from them, Parris Island, and Savannah, you also have a nuclear strike on Myrtle Beach and the effects of that. We also know that early explorers along the coast a few years after DD found nothing worth mentioning.

      There was also a state set up in Florence and Georgetown in the couple years after DD - completely fell apart by the end of 1989, and ended horribly. So that area is a bit of a write-off.

      We have records of survivor communities in NE North Carolina, which you can find info on in the article on that state. Those could be written on. Very small, though. The small city of Whiteville, in southern North Carolina, could play host to something small as well.

      Georgetown is on record as having survived in some form as well, though the extent of that would be small.

      Spartian, you are completely and wholly out to lunch. There is not a single plausible word in that. And, as an fyi, Bid Laden is in Saudi Arabia after having survived DD in Pakistan, and really not a terrorist atl. More of a businessman, really.

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    • In synthesis, LG, that's a No to my project. But still, what free area may I pick?

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    • Not actually a no, imo. Just wouldn't be anything really large, you know?

      Any other areas you have interest in?

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    • Well, I'd say the area that connects the Iowan cities of Des Moines, Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, Cedar Falls & Waterloo and Ames, if that's fine.

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    • Iowa City is part of the Quad Cities Alliance.

      Des Moines and Cedar Rapids, nuked.

      Ames would have been devastated by fires and refugees.

      Cedar Falls-Waterloo was the center of a short-lived provisional government. Raiders and Gangs took that one out within a year or so. Some sort of state officials set this one up after fleeing the capital. Another such thing of a similar nature happened in Dubuque, with internal gangs before its takeover by the Quad Cities Alliance in 1998.

      The area you're talking about - west of Cedar Rapids and northeast of Des Moines - is basically gang territory.

      If memory serves, there has been talk of small entities existing in Fort Dodge and Mason City. I believe that something in Ottumwa may work, myself. Fort Dodge, given the groups that took out Waterloo, would really not be workable. Mason City may be good, though.

      And, as an fyi, the westernmost parts of the state, near the river, are under the authority of Lincoln for the most part, with the northwest corner under the new USA.

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    • Ottumwa... Mason City... Which of the two do you recommend me?

      Have those cities been nuked, host of short-living gov'ments and/or belonging to other nations?

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    • LG, then which country should I made?

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    • @Local Mafia Boss: yes i guess that seems good. but they do settle eastern europe, and spain after settleing around the medittern coast.

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    • No, Osama is not available, and that is implausible to the extreme

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    • Ottumwa would be better. Farther away from the central Iowa group.

      No, neither one nuked - nothing there to hit. No known short-term governments there, but that means little. Don't belong to other nations, though I would imagine that Ottumwa would be being courted by the Quad Alliance to join it.

      Give me an area of interest, Ninja.

      Spartian, you are out to lunch. Completely.

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    • So, may I create a Proposal article about a survival nation located in Ottumwa?

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    • i dont understand.....

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    • Power to you, Master.

      Simply put, Spartian, not only is that not realistic, it also runs directly counter to 'everything we already have. There is not one part of that which could actually happen. Myself and others have told you this several times now, even.

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    • My Area of interest is the world

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    • Going to have to be more specific than that, lol.

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    • I'm trying to block Socialist Siberia and form an alliance between SS neignbouring states

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    • Given the relations between those states, not happening.

      Really, Siberia isn't all that much of a threat or problem, here.

      About the only spot that I can think of in the former USSR for a state of reasonable size is around the city of Aktau, in western Kazakhstan, though not the city itself, which would be nuked.

      Capital would be Zhanaozen.

      Have the diplomatic goal of the state be such an alliance.

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    • You're all such sheep... (LG excepted).

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    • Rude.

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    • Why? lol

      I meant, you all make nation pages.

      Culture pages are where it's at!

      ... Whatever 'it' is.

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    • How about a nation in Astrakhan, it's much more rivery.

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    • Sorry, I meant Atyrau or Nizhny Novgorod

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    • All nuked. Nizhny is also a bit too close to the Siberians and the Confederacy.

      Shadow, next time when you ask a question if something is viable, wait for the answer.

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    • Was doing a little research here on the pages and the timeline, and I think I found an interesting "glitch" area that might be worth investigating.  Here's the scoop:

      Looking over the list of "nuked" locations in Florida, there appears to be no nuclear missiles that hit either Eglin AFB/Hulbert Field in Fort Walton Beach, nor the Penascola Naval Air Station in Pensacola.  Now, Hurlburt Field was where the Special Operations Forces HQ was, Eglin was the Research and Development Command, and Pensacola NAS was the training school for naval pilots.

      So the question is, was Pensacola and Fort Walton Beach nuked as Panama City and Tallahassee was, or did they somehow escape (malfuctioning warhead?) and could be a point where the US Military might still have functional facilities?

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    • That reminds me, LG, what about a small state in Yoshkar-Ola or Syktykvar or their whereabouts?


      Also, fun fact I plan on exploiting on a while; German singer Nena released her song 99 Luftballons in 1983. The song deals about a misinterpretation leading to a nuclear war. She was at Berlin at the time of Doomsday, so if she survives, I think that's a massive "told you so" to the rest of the world.

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    • nevermind, Syktykvar and Yoshkar-Ola were both nuked. What about a nation in the Volga-Ural and/or northeastern European Russia areas?

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    • Hey their Lordgano its me Shadow. Still looking to contribute.

      Are still up for me for writing the Napa article?

      I noticed the Channel Islands on the world map blank. I was thinking of a nation on their.

      How bad was San Diego hit? Was it destroyed or is it in irradiated ruins?

      And the 2 nation I created months ago in Cali? Would you be up if I reintroduced. Provided I make realistic changes with your advise?

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    • We can safely assume that both of those sites in Florida were nuked. As the strike list says at the top, it is not complete and you need to use your judgement about other targets. Those two are very obvious ones.

      Fed, those areas are more or less under Siberia already. There's a small number of potential sites I left Guns on the DD talk page, those could be useful for something tiny.

      Shadow, go ahead and try the Napa article.

      Channel Islands in California are split between nuked and Chumash. Ones in Europe are part of the Celtic Alliance.

      San Diego was plastered. Nothing at all there.

      That nation in California was more or less in other states - hence why it did not work.

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    • What could i make? Is anything the former us free?

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    • Probably.

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    • how about washington republic? centered in washingto d.c.

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    • You realize that major cities are done for, right?

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    • How about a kingdom of Hawaii?

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    • already id one

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    • Damn. How about..... What is free?

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    • Look at the map.

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    • link?

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    • Seriously? It's on the TL's main page, right at the top...

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    • sigh. Here you go. 
      1983ddworldmap

      Do note that not everything in grey is free; actually I'd say almost everything in North America but really small city-states is taken. There's irradiated, depopulated and lawless areas all around, you can't randomly make the Imperial Empire of New York State or whatever.

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    • I am aware. So, we need a new map. Plus, what about Guam?

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    • We DO need a new map, actually. That's from 2011, I believe. There have been some changes there. Might want to wait till after the things with Gansu and Isiro finish though.

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    • Oh, and Guam is probably in the ANZC.

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    • Yes, a lot of things will need to be updated, but I feel this will be interesting to watch!

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    • Speaking of Gansu, I need to talk to Vlad about the SS brutally slaughtering the PRC so I can have Gansu back, hmm?

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    • Finally. With a new map, I can actually create a nation for the TL at last. About time.

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    • Didn't you have Tsuapa or something of that sort? 

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    • Hmmmmm. Wait, what about a Republic of Guam that split from ANZC so it can join the USA?

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    • No, a Michigan war of Independence. It begins in Jamaruy, 2014, and ends on December 1st, with Michigan gaining complete Indepedence from Superior, and having negotions to join the USA.

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    • So, just looking at that map... Is it just me, or are Lithuania and Courland in the opposite spots. Courland is one of the regions of Latvia (which is north of Lithuania), and on the map it is South of Lithuania.

      So unless the Lithuanian remnant set up in Latvia and a Latvian remnant set up in Lithuania, I think that ought to be fixed.

      Also, what is the small-ish "NLO" in light blue in OTL Latvia, between Latgalia and Estonia?

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    • Spartian, give us a region you'd like to work in, and we can try to give you an idea or three. World is too big to just give random ones.

      ...Are you kidding me, though? Map is even big on top of that page. Kind of disturbed that you couldn't find that.

      Map is newer than that. Though, I now see that the updates I did last year didn't "take." Frigging wikia.

      Guam, and indeed, that entire island chain, is gone. Large nuke on Guam itself, and the rest rendered uninhabitable.

      SS is incapable of intervention at this time. Aralia and Imperial China, in addition to the territory in the northwest and around the ruins of Vladivostok.

      Tshuapa was rendered obsolete because there was not one plausible thing with it. Tried to control more than half the Congo, and in the process invalidate every single thing there.

      Again, Guam is gone. Even if it were not, the idea of it joining the new USA is laughable.

      Superior = Michigan. And, virtually the entire population wants nothing to do with either the US or Canada. That concept is utterly ridiculous, Spartian.

      Chalk the Courland-Lithuania thing up to the map upload not doing anything.

      NLO = New Livonian Order.

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    • Really? See, i thought Superior started in Michigan. Im also a Michagander, and want Michigan to rejoin the USA. How about the Lansing Republic?

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    • I wonder what was the largest and most comericial city that was not killed

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    • My guess. Dublin.

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    • On that topic, do any of you mind if I create a list of the largest cities post-Doomsday as of 2014?

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    • then what part of the USA can i use. Plus, that map is outdated. I keep getting confused.

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    • "Chalk it up"? Sorry, LG, I do not know what you mean by that. I have no experience with how the DD map gets updated, so maybe if you were to let someone with more qualifications do it, I would appreciate it.

      I merely wanted it to be called to your attention.

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    • The largest city in the world to survive was, IIRC, Berlin.


      The map is not really outdated, don't use it as an excuse. It's not confusing at all. Grey = not a nation, colour = nation. If you think a grey area might work ask here and we'll help you.

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    • Okay, checking the cities page, Mumbai is the largest city in the world, followed by Karachi, Sao Paulo and Mexico City. However, the largest cities in Europe are Berlin, Stockholm and Dublin, in that order.

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    • Every time i try to make a grey area a nation, it dose not work out. The map is outdated.

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    • Not outdated, it just doesn't represent "this area is ready for a nation" vs "this area is under unofficial control/lawless/deeply irradiated".

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    • Spartian, choose the place(s) you want, and LG will tell you what, if anything, you can make there

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    • okay. is washington d.c. outskirts okay?

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    • Probably not. Anything that isn't an irradiated wasteland has been claimed by Delmarva or Virginia I believe.

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    • Yes, Superior did "start" in Michigan, and both most of its population and territory are from that former stated. The two are, in most ways, one and the same.

      Lansing, no way. That area has been virtually depopulated, as well as refugees and some radiation, with the region going over to bandits, gangs, and clans. As for the governor and state government, they fled the capital at some point, and were never heard from again. Died out there somewhere. Today, Lansing is on the edge of Toledo-controlled land.

      And before you ask, there is no chance of the former state government being out there somewhere, or another state existing in Michigan. Whole thing has been explored pretty thoroughly. Going theory I have for the ex-government, fyi, is that they froze to death somewhere out there. By now, you'd never find the bodies.

      As for the concept of it joining the new USA, even if there was support - there is not - it's not possible. There is a ton of distance between the two, and a few nations.

      In nuked countries, the largest city to survive was Berlin. Would have been something in Japan, probably, but... what happened there right after DD kind of killed that idea. In the overall world, somewhere in India, Mexico, or Brazil.

      Not sure what the point there would be, Bfo. Would be no different than the 2010 data already up on the cities article.

      Map is not outdated, Spartian. You just need to bother to look at it, and then check local articles. Maps cannot say everything.

      ...Really, Rex?

      "Chalk it up" means what you can basically blame it on. If you look at the image history, you'd note that the last two images uploaded are identical. Should not be the case, and a quick look at my files shows that it is not.

      There is a problem with wikia images from time to time where uploading a new version of an image, the new one simply doesn't change the image. This is a classic case.

      As for your "qualifications" remark, that's just insulting.

      Spartian, that you keep trying to propose nations in obvious nuked areas, where ones are already (and clearly marked on the map at that), or ones that are nonsensical in general, is solely your own fault. Got nothing to do with anything being "outdated."

      Washington DC and its environs were plastered on DD. Nothing left by it. Anything habitable and/or non-radiated by this point - which has been a change from after-DD, when nothing was - is under Virginia or Delmarva.

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    • Is there anything in the Sinosphere(Singapore, South east asia, China, Mongolia, outer Manchuria, Taiwan, Korea)?

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    • Is washington d.c. good, like around the outskirts?

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    • "Spartian, that you keep trying to propose nations in obvious nuked areas, where ones are already (and clearly marked on the map at that), or ones that are nonsensical in general, is solely your own fault. Got nothing to do with anything being "outdated."

      Washington DC and its environs were plastered on DD. Nothing left by it. Anything habitable and/or non-radiated by this point - which has been a change from after-DD, when nothing was - is under Virginia or Delmarva." -LG, literally two posts above you.

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    • Sorry, some glitch meant i could not see the replys.

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    • Also, i want to have the thumb of michigan.

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    • Grrrrr.....

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    • Most of the map is filled in by now Spartian, and despite the fun of drafting an alternate nation from scratch, I'd concentrate on areas besides nations such as culture, science, etc.

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    • what about the Congo?

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    • Not a chance. Unless you want to do a really small state - like a city state.

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    • thats okay.

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    • Ninja, almost all of those locations have easily identifiable articles already on them. Only one where something could be possible is a tiny city-state in China somewhere.

      Again, Spartian, if you would bother to look at the map, you would see that that is part of another state already. Superior-controlled.

      Actually, something reasonably-sized in the Congo, if at the right location, could be be possible. Bigger than a city-state, even.

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    • Dude, what about the Congo?

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    • ...You were given answers on that twice.

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    • okay.

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    • Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, but what about Worchester MA.I can see a large green state in New England, but I can't really tell if it has absorbed Worchester. Im assuming it wasn't nuked either, because Boston is really the only major city in MA.

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    • That large green nation is Vermont.

      Boston, imo, is not the only major city in Mass. Springfield in the west is, at minimum, as well. Worcester would normally qualify too, but it is definitely ranked third.

      Springfield, Boston, and the bases on the tip of Cape Cod were hit, as of yet. Looking through, I can see a couple more targets in the east that would have been hit, in addition to a second blast in the Boston Metro.

      But, overall, I see no reason for Worcester to have been hit. Heck, I've been working on the guess that it was not.

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    • Would Morehead City in NC be abandoned/run by another nation/otherwise unsuitable for a city-state? (Man, if I heard of this page before I started my first DD article).

      Also, what about Kansas between the US-held west and the nuked east? On the Kansas page, it does not state which cities were nuked, though I can assume Kansas City, Wichita, and Topeka were nuked, along with the usual smattering of military bases.

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    • What is left from fires would be under the Outer Lands.

      The strike on Cherry Point would have set the nearby national forest on fire, and that would have spread to Morehead and burned it down.

      That is more or less the strikes in Kansas. Add McConnell Air Force Base, the Kansas Army Ammunition Plant, and Fort Riley. Leavenworth probably would not have been hit, considering that none of the other academies were, though I cannot see that area going well.

      There has been talk on and off on talk pages about a few settlements in southeastern portions of the state surviving, but they would be very limited in size, and somewhat isolated - the Plant is off that way. Independence would be the most likely location for something if anything was there still.

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    • While studying an old tour date list for the band Black Sabbath, I happened to come across that they were in Geneva on the 25th of September. However, two days later, they were in Neunkirchen am Brand, a small town to the north of Nuremberg by about ten miles, almost certainly dead if they were there at the time. I am wondering if they possibly could've been in Geneva at the time. We'd probably have to use guesswork, as I seriously doubt there are records of where they were on the 26th.

      Also, I was reading up on the Kansas-Missouri-Oklahoma border region in Doomsday, when I stumbled upon the Joplin and Springfield, Missouri articles. I noticed that Joplin was out of date, with the recent tornado and such. Would you mind if I updated the Joplin article, seeing as logically the nearby city of Pittsburg would join it.

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    • Considering that the events of Doomsday started at around 1:40am on the 26th in Switzerland, I doubt that they would have even left the concert venue by the time it started. No way they got to Germany.

      So, alive. Surprising.

      Joplin, imo, is also a smidgen inaccurate anyway. Far as I'm concerned, you can add to it, but... you really should follow the rules about it.

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    • Is there any space for a state in Germany?

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    • am i allowed to request and idea for a country even though im anon?

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    • also, it seems that south america is complety radiation free. was south america unaffected by doomsday?

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    • Not really, Local. About the only empty areas at this point are highly radiated. Couple of the articles could probably be adopted, though.

      Anon, you are more than welcome to sound out ideas.

      South America was only directed effected, in northwest Columbia, maybe, (I somewhat doubt it) by mild fallout from strikes in Puerto Rico. Very doubtful because of the distance.

      Indirect effects, however, were major. Civil Wars, Rebellions, Economic collapses, etc.

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    • Would a state in or around the area of Portland Maine Work? was it nuked?

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    • thank you for the answer, lordganon.

      what is anzc? i noticed it on hawaii and alaska.

      can i place another country, say, on scandanavia?(the part not taken)

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    • the formerly russian owned grey part, next to sapmi. was it nuked, or mostly spared?

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    • is the city of kirovsk part of sapmi? im thinking it could be the capital.

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    • never mind about anzc. i found what it means.

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    • Can I create some bands for dd and a country in dd please.

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    • Toby2: Portland, ME was one of the cities hit. http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Maine_(1983:_Doomsday)

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    • Yeah, Portland Maine was hit. Really, at this point, Maine is pretty much done. What is left has been pretty well explored by now.

      That gray area east of Sampi is more or less uninhabited even in otl, and what people do live there have to be supplied from outside. About the only thing of importance is a Boomer supply base, and that would have been hit.

      So, that's basically a no.

      What is left of Kirovsk after DD and the events thereafter, would be under Sampi.

      Scarlet, you're welcome to make bands. As for a country, give me a general location you're interested in. Same goes to you, anon.

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    • Cool I will make some bands then. Lordganon which is better to make a country in New Jersey or on the boarder of North Carolina and South Carolina? 

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    • thanks lordganon, sad to hear, but ill think of something else.

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    • could i recreate a 7 united netherlands-based country, or was amsterdam nuked?

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    • A lot of New Jersey was rendered uninhabitable by Doomsday and the refugees that followed. Tons of strikes around NYC, several more throughout the north and central parts of the state, and large amounts of fallout from Philly. In addition, these areas were more or less cut off from the southern parts of the state by blast zones. About the same concept applies to the western borders of the former state.

      All that is really left is the south, centered in Atlantic City, which is part of Delmarva.

      Most of the Carolina border region got wiped out by violence and hurricanes, if not DD itself. Only area left near it is the town of Georgetown, home of a small survivor state. You could do something there, though there is some canon about it already.

      Amsterdam was indeed hit, as was Rotterdam and several military bases. Add fallout from Belgium.

      Even worse for that area, however, is that the dams and levees, at least in part, failed. The former Netherlands today is largely water. Parts of the northeast survived, forming Friesland and what is now part of North Germany, and portion in the south, now under Luxembourg. Rest is a write-off.

      That area is so bad that it is labeled on the world map in red, along with the Marianas.

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    • Lordganon which is better Kansas City (Kansas) or Des Moines. (Iowa) I want an industrial city that I can rebuild.

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    • Impossible to rebuild. Radiated for centuries.

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    • Lordganon where do you think is a good area in the the USA where I can have nice peice of land to rebuild. 

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    • Nowhere, really. Rebuilding, imo, outside of the established nation-states and their environs, is not going to happen anytime soon.

      Anywhere radiated is going to be decades, at best - in some cases, millennia. For areas that are just destroyed in general, it is just beyond abilities.

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    • so I can't make a country in the usa then? Where else on earth on the dd map can I make a country then?

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    • Not what I said, imo. Rebuilding is out, but that does not mean that a country somewhere is. Name another area of the US.

      World is too big to spout off places. Need to be more specific.

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    • well the biggest areas to make a country and to expand in the usa is Kansas City (Kansas) or Des Moines. (Iowa) if I can't use these areas then tell me where I can have a country in the usa then?

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    • pardon my ignorance but whatever happenedto Kaliningrad? ( i refer to it as konisberg due to personal preference, but hey its kaliningrad so) not interested in starting a page on dd but im interesting in knowing what happened to the city.

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    • According to the list of places hit, it looks like Kaliningrad was nuked during doomsday.

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    • my beloved Konisberg T.T

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    • Scarlet, a big state in the former US is basically out of the question right now. The large empty areas of that map are empty for good reasons.

      Give me an area of the US you're prefer, and I can name options.

      Yeah, Kaliningrad got blasted really badly. Whole Oblast was basically a write-off.

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    • Richmond?

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    • Maybe a nomadic band of raiders in the ohio river valley area would work?

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    • Also is china filled out, because i thought about a nation around Nanyang, Henan.

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    • I was thinking like either in Kansas or Iowa Lordganon? Which is better?

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    • Richmond... assume you mean Virginia. Nuked, and the region under control of others by now.

      Ohio River Valley controlled by nation-states. Strong ones, too.

      With Nanyang, there is a proposal, almost done, which includes more or less that area as part of it.

      Kansas would be better. Less to have to explain. Survivor state would only be possible in the southeastern part of the state, however. Probably based in Independence.

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    • I was thinking like somewhere in the east side on the boarder of Kansas and Missouri Lordganon. If I can't do that then I will do what you said in the southeast.

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    • the nuclear targets map shows that amsterdam and rotterdam wasnt that bad. wouldnt the area be clear by now?

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    • i just double checked the targets map. rotterdam was a bit bad off, but northern germany, belguim, luxembourg, and amsterdam werent that badly hit. i think the fallout from the sorrounding area would have dissipated after 30 years.

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    • Last Question

      Ive noticed that you can adopt relatively untouched stubs. am i allowed to adopt the page for the islamic republic of cameroon?

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    • That area is on the borders of a couple of states, and, really is barely inhabited at all. Not impossible for survivors in the towns of Fort Scott or Nevada, but a state is probably too much.

      The nuclear targets map can be safely ignored - I don't think it has ever been accurate. Dozens of strikes not on it by this point, and probably more than that.

      They were hit much worse than you think.

      At least eight strikes in the Netherlands, anon. Most of the country is now either an arm of the North Sea, or a lake, depending. What the strikes, fires, and radiation did not accomplish, the floods did. That's why only the three areas have survivors.

      As for the concept of resettlement, only the Netherlands Antilles - which claims the region, to one degree or another - has even talked about trying to settle what remains that is not still irradiated, and accessible, though Luxembourg is slowly expanding north into the southern areas. The areas that the NA could conceivably settle are basically just the coastal islands, and islands that would appear after the flooding to their south.

      Toby, you would need to adopt it like any other article.

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    • Lordganon either today or tomorrow I will start a Kansas page for DD ok.

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    • Scarlet, a Kansas page is on my to do list. Perhaps we may be able to work on it together, as I am still gathering ideas.

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    • Bfoxius I was think of making the page and you and edit it if anything is wrong

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    • LG any places anywhere in Minnesota or North East Iowa avalibale, in Iowa or southern minnesota quad cities protectorate, I know

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    • I was wondering, would Area 51 have been hit, or even known about, by the Soviets?

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    • Scarlet, that would be a great way for you to learn the ropes.

      Oct, about the only good place is the town of Spencer, in NW Iowa. The areas of Minnesota that are empty got massive amounts of radiation from silo strikes, hence the emptiness. Northeastern Iowa is either under other states, or the site of failed states, depending on the location.

      Everyone and their pet monkey knew about Area 51, even then. Soviets would have known more than average. Unquestionably hit.

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    • Where can I start a nation?

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    • Scarlet, I'd be happy to edit the page if anything is wrong.

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    • Thanks bfox

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    • Ninja, as I keep saying on here, give me a region and I can give advice on that. World's a big place.

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    • Sorry its been awhile since my last post here, But i Have 2 questions:

      1) What is the plausablity of a nation based in Worchester county. It may be under foregin influence or just part of Vermont.

      2) Do we do city pages? I am intreseted in doing a city page on Worhcester if I can't make it a nation.

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    • Is Åland Islands an independent kingdom?
      Flag of Åland

      Flag of Åland

      It so we discover as Åland declares its independence from Finland due to politics reasons.

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    • Not plausible - under Vermont.

      City pages can be done. With regards to Worcester, it would be a story of radiation, collapse, and refugees, eventually getting taken over by Vermont, but certainly something you could write on.

      Åland is an autonomous area of Finland.

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    • After I am done with Sabbath, I'd like to start creating a state. Is a state at the mouth of the Ural River, centered on Atyrau (Guriev at the time) plausible?

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    • By my guess, it would have gotten hit. Port, larger city, large oil refinery, and a "joint" between oil pipelines.

      Fort-Shevchenko, across the Caspian, may work as a center for something.

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    • Just wanting to check because it is not stated as being hit -- Was Almaty hit on Doomsday? Any other Kazakh states or states located near the Garabogazkol in Turkmenistan that need to be developed?

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    • Almaty was, apparently, not hit during Doomsday. However, it's owned by Socialist Siberia.

      I was also interested in a Turkmen state, and I was thinking of the Garabogazköl, but I believe that state would be nomadic, since most Turkmen are.

      Also, LG, is something in Gorno-Badakashan possible?

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    • Is the USSR ever going to fall? It has lasted much longer than OTL, understandably without a cold war, but still.

      It seems to me that it would eventually break apart. Especially with the growth in power of the ADC and ANZC.

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    • Once I am done with Sabbbath, I am going to do a state in Mangystau, so don't get any ideas. >:)

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    • Reximus55 wrote:
      Is the USSR ever going to fall? It has lasted much longer than OTL, understandably without a cold war, but still.

      It seems to me that it would eventually break apart. Especially with the growth in power of the ADC and ANZC.

      USSR != SS.

      ADC != a united nation or bloc.

      ANZC, well, can't fault that, but tiny population compared to the other big power, the SAC (which is also technically not a nation but is far more united than the ADC.)

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    • Socialist Siberia's official name is USSR. The second 's' just means something different.

      ADC being an unified nation is irrelevant - NATO was not, nor was the Coallitions against France, or the Triple Entente, or the Holy League, or the Delian League.

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    • I assume Siberia still exists for a reason. I would assume that reason is that the population is too low for anyone to topple the Government, or even try to.

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    • Holy censorship Batman. What's been removed?

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    • Almaty would have been hit. Remember the big note on top of the DD page.

      The Garabogazkol is more or less just desert, without people. There's a reason why there is only the one real settlement in that area, and it's on the Caspian, with its existence dependent on local sulfate mines. Only going to be nomads here now.

      The USSR, atl, has reformed itself. Not going to "fall." At this point, worst you could call it is a moderate one-party state.

      Not outright impossible for something in Gorno-Badakhshan.

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    • Ok, so now that the Black Sabbath page is getting closer to completion, I have begun to look to another music-type page to start to think about. Following the trend with the heavy metal genre, I was looking at Iron Maiden.

      In Sept. of 1983, they were on their World Piece Tour (remarkably with all main members: Dickinson, Harris, Murray, Smith, and McBrain) and there two closest tour dates were Sept. 20 (Edmonton, AB, Canada) and Sept. 29 (Peoria, IL, USA). They spent 9 days travelling between sites, which were a bit over 3,000 km apart.

      On the third day, about 600 km had to have been travelled, putting them in undestroyed Saskatoon, SK, Canada.

      So, if it not contested, I will start making a page for Iron Maiden. What do you all think?

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    • And one more thing...

      I was looking at Arizona (my home state) and I feel that there is room for more nations in that state.

      I am mostly looking at the Colorado River area, including the cities of Kingman, Bullhead City, Lake Havasu City, and Fort Mojave.

      I could see two states there, realistically. We would have Kingman/Bullhead/Fort Mojave and then Lake Havasu/Parker which may go all the way down to Blythe/Quartzsite.

      Another region of the state which could possible self-sustain would be Casa Grande/Coolidge/Florence/Maricopa.

      Yet another region would be Miami/Globe (maybe even Florence eventually)

      Another -- Show Low/Pinetop/Talyor/Snowflake

      That is just about all that I can think of, so please tell me what you think! :D

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    • Wouldn't Gabon, as a pretty well-off nation in Africa post-DD eventually claim some lands in the former RoC? (Republic of Congo)

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    • Iron Maiden would have flown between the two cities. Literally no reason or logic for them to have driven. If anywhere, they'd have been in Peoria. Can't predict, however, overall. Assume dead.

      Rex, you are incorrect about Arizona. Don't know how many bloody times I have to repeat myself to people about this one.

      Much of what you know as "Arizona" is only habitable because of electricity and modern utilities. With regards to growing crops, it is wholly and utterly dependent on irrigation, and fertilizer - both of which are gone. Only a few areas are not like that, and the Colorado River valley sure as heck isn't one of them.

      Water for the towns, past that, comes from underground aquifers - by and large, you can't get these without power.

      Those towns died off, and fairly fast at that. Only survivors were those that fled south.

      Yes, Bfo, they would have taken some. Call that a weak point of my map.

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    • Still, there are some regions which you did not make mention of. Too many people think of AZ as entirely desert, but this could not not be further from the truth. I live here, and have been to all of the cities I have listed and feel that at a minimum Globe/Miami, Williams, Winslow/Holbrook, and Show Low/Pinetop would've been able to survive.

      Also, I doubt that Scottsdale would've been hit by a nuclear missile. In 1980, the city had under 90,000 inhabitants, far from the largest city (compared to over 220,000 today!) in the state. Although, I do not know the Soviet nuclear plans, I feel that Mesa or another suburb would've been hit.

      In 1980: Mesa (150,000), Glendale (100,000)

      And Bfox said that he thinks Iron Maiden would've used a tour bus, but if you are sure on this one, I will respect your judgement.

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    • I am well aware it is not all desert. However, you don't seem to be fully aware of what desert, or near-deserts, actually are.

      All of those except Winslow/Holbrook are in near-desert areas. And those two are in the desert. Nothing is grown there, or can be. Water situation, just as bad.

      Williams also would need to deal with a near-hit from the Navajo Depot. Fires from that strike, and the Phoenix Metro, would burn a lot of land, too. Add refugees for Williams and Globe.

      For that matter, whatever is left of Winslow/Holbrook and Show Low/Pinetop is in Navajo territory.

      To kill off the Metro, strikes in Phoenix and Scottsdale are needed. Geography dictates it. Scottsdale has also been a major center for the air industry for a long time. Got nothing to do with size.

      Overall, far as we can determine, only the Prescott area, in addition to the Navajo, would have had the means to survive and not been burned up.

      Fairly sure that they would not have, Even if they had, they'd have still been somewhere in Illinois by DD. Given the break in their schedule, bet on Chicago somewhere.

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    • Ok, thanks for your insights.

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    • So Im back ganon! I can finally start working on Napa, once I finish my last pre cal test on tuesday, I can start to get to work on it.


      I think I asked this question before but correct me if I m wrong but would it be possible for some other natons between South of the MSP and North of California Republic?

      http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Napa

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    • 76.233.200.133 wrote:
      So Im back ganon! I can finally start working on Napa, once I finish my last pre cal test on tuesday, I can start to get to work on it.


      I think I asked this question before but correct me if I m wrong but would it be possible for some other natons between South of the MSP and North of California Republic?

      http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Napa

      It is me Shadow. Forgot to log in lol.

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    • I was wondering if I could make a page for the NFL, which my plan is it becomes kinda a failure in the one state it in

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    • Now that I think about it I would like to adopt American football (1983: Doomsday), and it's associate, the Oceanic Football League, what are the adoption rules for doomsday

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    • You have asked before, and the answer is the same - realistically, no.

      NFL is gone.

      The football article is a community article. Can't adopt it.

      Can, in theory, go through the adoption process for the other one. Go look at the editorial guidelines for info on that.

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    • I there a baseball or basketball league in DD 83

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    • Most nations of large enough size in the US/Canada have their own regional leagues, with smaller nations having smaller, recreational teams for the most part.

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    • I had a question, is the Iran article adoptable? I messaged the person who created the page. And I haven't gotten a response (note that the user hasn't posted in years) from the user back. Does this need to be a TSPTF vote on this when the week is up? And if a i'm making a complete fool of myself asking for this page, message me so I'll now that the page isn't adoptable. Thanks!

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    • As noted elsewhere: Fxgentleman and Vladivostok are the caretakers/owners, not Xi. Talk to them, and follow the adoption rules.

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    • What about the 2014 FIFA World Cup in this timeline?

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    • Would the World Cup have happened?

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    • excuse me, but what about the Congo?

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    • There is no World Cup in this timeline, becarse FIFA no longer exists.

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    • Eric4e wrote:
      There is no World Cup in this timeline, becarse FIFA no longer exists.

      What? If FIFA Doesn't Exist then why do the Olympics?

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    • Olympics exists in this timeline.

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    • FIFA was reformed long ago - there has been World Cups since 1990. 2014 World Cup, as in otl, hosted by Brazil.

      Congo? What about it?

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    • can there be at least three warring nations?

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    • There are several nations in the Congo, including Katanga, Kivu, Isiro, Zaire and Angola.

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    • what is free? 

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    • Spar, DD is not like a map game. You do not play as a nation. The nations DO have caretakers, however, who (with the advice and consent of the community) can write plausible pages for that nation.

      As for which ones have who as a caretaker, IDK. I just wanted to let you know how the whole DD "ownership" works.

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    • no, as in, what nation can I make?

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    • Spartian300 wrote: no, as in, what nation can I make?

      Spartian, you can't make one more set of nations to this timeline becarse thier nations is Canon. If you thinking to adding nations, try create an althistory for it!

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    • Eric4e wrote:

      Spartian300 wrote: no, as in, what nation can I make?

      Spartian, you can't make one more set of nations to this timeline becarse thier nations is Canon. If you thinking to adding nations, try create an althistory for it!

      I dont think it works like that eric

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    • Liker is correct. You can create a new nation, but it shall start as a proposal. Once it reaches all of the needed requirements, it can become canon.

      So, yes, you can create a nation but it must:

      a) not conflict with existing canon, and

      b) be the plausible site of a remnant after DD

      Spar, the best way to find a nation is to look at the map and find a grey area that wouldn't have been nuked. Then, bring up that region/nation on the forums and get the community (LG)'s approval.

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    • what is plausible then? 

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    • That is what good Alternate History is based around.

      It really is something I'd have hoped you would have learned about in your 1000 edits and almost 1 year here, but its better late than never. :)

      If you've heard of ASB, then plausibility is about the opposite of ASB.

      Plausibility is how possible the chain of events following DD (or whatever your POD may be) and how likely they were to have happened.

      In a TL like DD, each article should explore the most plausible, that is believable, course in its history.

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    • So long as the nation is plausible, you can make anything you want, Spartian. As I have said before many times, give me an area of the world and I can even give ideas.

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    • North America. 

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    • Region of it? Big place.

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    • North America is almost completly filled, mayabe a small city state or 2 but not much else fits there

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    • IN the Lower Michigan Peinsula, like Ann Arbor? It's my home, so, I want it to be a city state. 

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    • Lower Peninsula is either wasteland, under Toledo, under Superior, or roving bands of nomads. Ann Arbor, basically wiped out in the attacks and the refugee waves that followed. What is left is under Toledo by now.

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    • Question: Would it have been possible for a southern Portuguese/Spainish city state, at the most the size of OTL Philadelphia, to gain power an  set up a centralized government? Also, how hard was Estonia hit with fallout? Enough to for a coastal nation to thrive?

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    • Well, I think that there should be some amount of anti-superior feeling in the lower peinsula, as the Upper Peinsula has never really considered themelves Michiganders like the Lower Peinsula. So there are probably movements to break off from Superior, and establish a Michigan Republic. But they might not be that powerful. Gurreila movements might be here and there, but there should some kind of war between the Upper Peinsula and Lower Peinsula. At least some parts of the Lower Peinsula will try to seccede.

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    • What about that land in northwesternn liberia. around Bopulu

      Also is there any place for a nation in eastern kazakhstan?

      EDIT: maybe a Tartar state somewhere

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    • Kazahkstan is pretty full. And IIRC there is a Kazahk state.

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    • Kazakh Khanate stronk! Kazakh Khanate can into apples and Bukhori dependence!


      But no really, I tried having a larger Kazakh state. The centre is steppe or radioactive, the north and east are Siberian and the west is under the Russian Confederacy. 

      Tatar states, if they're really small, I think can work,.

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    • Well, come to think on my last comment, there must be a movement to establish a Michigan Republic, as Ohions and Michiganders are natural rivals, and the whole issue with Superior. At some point, the Michigan will rebel against Superior and/or toledo.

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    • Rivalry doesn't lead to rebellion, or every country's second largest city would have rebelled long ago. I don't see Republics of Los Angeles and Manchester, do you?

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    • Good point, but still, there should be some amount of anti-superior or anti-toledo feelings in some areas.

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    • Saturn, given what we know about that area of Spain/Portugal, no. Area is either sparsely inhabited, gone to complete chaos, or under states already.

      Coastal Estonia already is a state.

      Spartian, just because you don't consider it Michigan by much - and yes, that is more on you than any perceived attitude by people from the UP - doesn't mean a thing. I am well aware that your statement about them "not really considering themselves part of Michigan" is not true.

      Fact of the matter is, the Lower Peninsula, outside of the northern areas of it, was damaged to the point where the only people left are what amounts to bandits, or small clan-like groups. Not only did the region suffer multiple strikes in its own right, but it also got truly massive doses of fallout from the Chicago blasts.

      No one will "rebel" or try to "secede." That makes no sense at all. Those in the LP that are left are grateful to the UP residents for being alive, and recognize that the state of Michigan is long gone. The mere concept of a movement to establish a "Michigan Republic" is ludicrous.

      Anyone who is interested in reestablishing any such thing is involved with a pro-US movement aimed at joining with the new US, and on the far-right side of things.

      The areas where Toledo has power now are near Detroit. Three guesses how many people where there when they took over - more or less none. Nor is there anyone in likely areas of expansion for them.

      The concept of there being feeling among the people in the former state of Michigan against Superior or Toledo is ludicrous.

      Toby, going by current canon there would be a very small city-state in Bopulu. Guns and Fed more or less have it right for Kazakhstan. A small city-state in Fort-Shevchenko, on the Caspian, may work.

      Tartars really don't exist in a coherent mass.

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    • just an off topic ish question. how would/does west africa fare in an ebola outbreak like IRL

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    • Darn.

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    • Given the lack of contact with the areas it originated from, probably never spread out to that area.

      The CAR, Congo, and Sudan - the three areas it comes from - would be doing better and worse from it at the same time. Less spread, more deaths.

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    • Would a very small (~500-1,000 people) city-state located around Ellsworth, Kansas be okay?

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    • Really don't think it would be feasible - have a look at the Lawrence Kansas article. Have to think that anyone here would have gotten the message and went north. Either that, or went westwards to Hays, where we know something held out to be a part of the new US.

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    • Something between Dodge City and Wichita could work for such an idea, I suppose.

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    • I was wondering if there would be anything like cherboyl exculsion zones in doomsday, claimed by nations surounded by them, but still to toxic to go in

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    • I think that is possible, Oct. 

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    • Would be many of those still around.

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    • Is there any like actually in doomsday or should they be added

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    • There are mentions in some articles of such things.

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    • should there be a list?

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    • Probably not. Really, the strike list more or less covers it.

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    • Would the Copa America not be affected because of no nukes destroying South America?

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    • One more question: What nation would be the strongest?

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    • No nukes in SA, but still significant unrest. Expect the 1983 one to be cancelled partway through (though them doing a quick finish to it later on is not out of the question), and the 1987 one delayed a year.

      Strongest... depends. Kind of got a "quality v.s. quantity" thing going on between the ANZC and SAC, if that makes any sense. Time on the side of the SAC, though.

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    • In north America, would the USA stand a good chance of becoming the strongest nation? 

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    • No. Mexico is far and away the strongest, which will not go away, and Canada is probably No. 2. Would also rank Victoria, Superior, Virginia, Texas, Delmarva, and Kentucky as stronger than the new US as well. Florida would run in the same range as them. Don't see the US passing anyone on that list.

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    • hmmm. What would happen if mexico were to break out into civil war? 

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