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I love this timeline but I have one question that has been eating at me, why is it that there is no southern campaign? Is it the terrain? Or just getting the tribute from the countries more profitable? - Willbell123 20:05, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the user whose timeline this is has left, apparently never to return. LurkerLordB 20:07, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

Quite right.

But to answer the question.... The south is full of organized states. Not small states, and tribes, like the north. The terrain, as well, is full of mountains and jungles. Extremely hard to do anything. And, of course, some are vassals, likely.

Lordganon 00:09, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Really the point of being a tributary state is that you pay China not to conquer you. So the reason they were not attacked was because they paid China. China probably realized that it would make more profit from just accepting the tribute due to the dificulties in taking this territory (see LordGanon's post as to why). LurkerLordB 00:19, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

1 year for Mongols to be conquered[]

How can the Mongols be conquered in less than a year? RandomWriterGuy 23:22, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

At this time the Mongols were no where near as powerful as they were in the time of Genghis and Kublai Khan, they were semi-nomadic. China probably just won a few battles against them so that they gave lip service to the emperor, but it is doubtful that they changed much in their ways except for acknowledging that China owned their lands until many decades later. LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:46, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with him. The Mongols had virtually limitless terrain to withdraw into, and they were used to living on the steppe whereas the Chinese would have been dependent on supplies from China. These lines would have been vulnerable to raids and attacks. Plus, could the Mongols have united with other tribes to defeat the Chinese? "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Hlanus (talk) 03:22, April 26, 2013 (UTC)Hlanus

The Mongols had long previously pissed off the other tribes to the point where that is impossible.

Lurk is right about the likely scenario, however - really, that's much like how they got the Mongol lands otl.

Lordganon (talk) 07:18, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

But wouldn't the problem of logistics, the seemingly infinite steppe and the tribesmen's long experience with it, have given the Chinese grief? Unless they also learned how to survive on horseback, which would have required mimicing the "barbarians", would they have really had a chance? Hlanus (talk) 14:07, April 26, 2013 (UTC)Hlanus

None of that would come into play in that situation - the Mongols, as they have done (along with other tribal peoples) several times through history, would just sign some sort of treaty after losing a few battles acknowledging the Emperor as their overlord.

As to them winning battles, it's not hard. We're not talking about a protracted campaign - just a few small encounters. So long as the Chinese forces don't do anything too foolish, they'd get treaties from the local chiefs, and then go back to China.

Lordganon (talk) 01:26, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

Historically the Chinese have often dealt with nomadic tribes like the Mongols in just that manner. The steppe was not worth conquering so they just thrashed them in a few battles and made them sign a treaty. Sooner or later, the need to prove oneself would force the tribes to break the treaty and the cycle would renew itself. And as we see from the map, the Chinese take over the steppe and incorporate it into their empire, which does not resemble what you are describing. 68.231.174.243 04:20, April 27, 2013 (UTC)Hlanus

Maps of China have normally included such territories as being part of China. Lordganon (talk) 04:51, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

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