Ideas?[]
I purpose that the Court be held in Karolin post haste and that its first cases be the treason trial of Savoy and the Heresy issues in the North.
Now the question is, How do we set it up? Give me all of your concerns and I will try to make a fair and equitable Court. So without further adeu, Begin! Andr3w777 (talk) 00:45, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
As we need to define many things (currency, judicial system, Emperor's exact powers, powers of the states, Reichstag's powers, etc...) I think we should have a "constitution", a Magna Carta granting and making clear the Empire's structure. I will work on making a constitutional proposal, do any of you have ideas to this new constitution? Obviously I'll base on the already made pacts such as the Unification Treaty. --Galaguerra
Yes I agree with you on this, Perhaps an amendment that addresses the grievances caused by this vassalization issue that led to Savoy's rebellion?Andr3w777 (talk) 02:57, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
Exactly. We all should vote on what the structure of this new Empire will be, I'll just make the corpus. --Galaguerra
Okay. I will try to make a constitution tomorrow, that doesn't have all the fancy wording and stuff. Monster Pumpkin (talk) 03:15, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
Justice Appointees?[]
How many justices? and what will be their term? Election or appointed?
I don't know. Any ideas?
- Appointed sounds good, that gives the Emperor and Government more power. Still some nations may see this unfair. But appointed sounds more reasonable and less time consuming.
- Elected seems more reasonable. May be we should have the King of Romans (Emperor's elected heir) as chief-justice until he becomes Emperor, and, while there is no King of Romans, one of the vicars (regent in charge of the Empire while the Emperor is not yet elected nor crowned) would be Regent and the other chief-justice. Two minor justices would be one appointed by the Emperor the other appointed by the Pope (as we need a religious officer for trials against heresy).
- I think I would prefer elected over appointed because it would avoid the issues we are facing todayAndr3w777 (talk) 17:49, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
Chief Justice[]
Should it be the Emperor or elected/appionted?
Maybe the head justice should be elected among the judgee or the conclave
I was thinking that we would have one judge frim the smaller/less influential nations and two judges from the influential nations. I was thinking that they should be voted on in the Conclave.Andr3w777 (talk) 00:56, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
Bavaria's Plan[]
- The Chief Justice will be appointed by the Emperor, but must be vetted and approved by the Conclave of Kings The Chief Justice will serve for 12 years.
- The Justices will be elected by the state courts and then vetted or approved by the Emperor to fill said position.
- There will be 7 justices 6 will be from the Empire while the seventh will be the head religous leader of the nation.
- The Election of the Religous Justice will be vetted by the Pope, to ensure His worthiness to hold the position
Discussion[]
Seems fine...Any objections?
Monster Pumpkin (talk) 21:10, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
In Favor[]
- Bavaria
- Austria
- Milan
- Venice
- Calais
Against
- none
Result[]
Let it be known to the world, that this provision was found right in the eyes of God and Man. Do to a unanimus vote, the motion is hearby passed. 'Voting on the subject will be closed @ '01:00:00 a.m. Thursday September 20, 2012 UTC, Then votes tallied. Please all who wish to vote, do so.
Calais' proposal[]
I was just drafting a constitution, and my sistem for justice appointment is as follows:
- The Supreme Court of the Empire is formed by counselors.
- The Emperor appoints one counselor.
- The states will vote on counselors, and the five with more votes will be appointed. If there is a tie at the last position, there shall be a ballotage. If tie prevails, the Emperor shall decide.
- The Pope will appoint one counselor who exercises an ecclestiastical ministry in the Empire, with episcopal range.
- The counselors shall hold office for 7 years.
- Each of those seven years, the seat of Executor of Justice (chief-justice) will be held by a different counselor.
- The first year, that one appointed by the Emperor.
- The second year, that one appointed by the Pope.
- The other five will take turns depending on who received more votes. Inc ase of tie, the Emperor shall decide.
- The jury gives veredict (decides for guilt or innocence, or in favor of one of the states involved) and is formed by all states. The Executor of Justice decides upon ties.
- The Supreme Court decides the resolutions in case of guilt or for the state that lost the trial.
- The Executor of Justice may elevate any matter to trial in this court.
What do you think? The rest will be posted soon in the imperial constitution page. --Galaguerra1 (talk) 17:39, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
A Question[]
Can novgorod try to influence decisions via tha hanesatic league? Just wondering. We can't vote or anything, but we control the dominant trade guild in the baltic... and battling for supremacy in Germany with Venice, and extended itself to the brittish isles.-Lx (leave me a message) 21:59, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
I don't think so... The HRE has the new Imperial Merchants Guild(Milan, Genoa, Bavaria) and Venice. So trade is pretty much covered. What exactly do you mean by influence? The Hanesatic League is all but dead in Germany, That's why i founded the Guild.Andr3w777 (talk) 22:02, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
The guilds is new and Venice's influence can't reach the Baltic if Novgorod it's keeping the Hanseatic League alive. We could create another bench to the richest guild in the Empire. --Galaguerra1 (talk) 22:42, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
Discussion( OLD FOR REFERENCE ONLY!!!)[]
If those allegations are true, and Naples is conspiring with the enemy, then Bavaria may have to side with Venice in this matter. What proof is there of this charge? It has come to the attention of the nation-state of Bavaria, that the caliphate is waiting for us to war with Naples. If I am right then that will spell very bad news as it stands now. I strongly urge a temperamental reaction.
This is from Quiari's talk page:
Hello! Would you like to join the Caliphate? The only requirements is your leader being a muslim, in which in your case he'd convert. And then, we support you in all your wars, support you with your economy so it becomes more stable, and a seat in a courte in the empire. What do you say? Saamwiil, the Humble 22:59, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
It is utterly and totally ASB for the king of Naples to convert to Islam, if he did so he would be overthrown immediately. LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:07, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
I'll see if I can make it go through. I need to consult with the Imperial Courte of Muslims before that. Seeing that you are Christian, we'd need to vote on it, unless the Caliph rules for or against (Von roleplays the Caliph now). Are you interested in eventually joining
There is a lot more where he communicates with Fed, Willster, Saamwill and Bauglir but much of it is in Spanish. It seems he is planing to attack Aragon and conspiring to join the Caliphate to the point at LLB had to intervene and point out implausability. And if you are interested, Saamwill's page offers this:
I tink now is not a good time, i can see a war is coming betwen you and the holy roma... i just get his kingdom and at least need a decent army to save my own territories, i wont atack the califat you have mi promise, maybe we can do a trait for mutual benefit, like help in small battles or comercial agreements, what do you say? Quiari (talk) 23:10, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
Any Christian nation converted to Catholicism voluntarily is ASB. In fact, Christian-to-Muslim or vice-versa conversions were very rare by the modern era, the only major examples of people switching between those two religions that I can think of are the Granadan conversion to Catholicism and the conversion of the Bosnians and Albanians to Islam, all three instances occuring due to occupation by another nation. LurkerLordB (Talk) 23:22, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
I cant convert now, all other nation will crushme, i can help you like an ally, but not been a part of you Quiari (talk) 23:46, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
My work here is done. Scandinator (talk) 23:17, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
In light of the proof provided by Venice, Bavaria will support Venice in a war against Naples. Naples has offended the Holy See, threatened all of Christiandom. And is a Traitor to the Faith. Bavaria will support FULLY.
This is Quiari's response to each of Scandinator's paragraphs. I'm a little OCD, so NEVER post in my post.
- I have a question for you: how precisely would the HRE members know about secret diplomacy between Naples and the Caliphate? Fed (talk) 00:15, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
- If you really must know... Venice maintains a huge network of merchants many of which are skilled at collecting information about their rivals. The Doges of Venice also can use these merchants to collect other information at times... But question for you Fed and Quiari, how did Naples and the mamluks get into the High Imperial Court? Scandinator (talk) 00:44, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
- Quiari is in control of Savoy, im a part of the Holy Roman Empire, and i want Naples become a part too... and also, assuming that there is some secret deal, that should be put on the page of the year, no? putting aside your post (secret) ... that's what I understood from the beginning ...Quiari (talk) 01:01, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
- 1.- We must give order to this page, it an aesthetic mess.
- 2.- This debate shouldn't be placed here, as the constitution states:
- <<Paragraph LXI. The Conclave will make war and peace by two thirds of its votes>>.
- So only electors (that includes Savoy) can vote, and the debate must take place in the Conclave of Kings.
- --Galaguerra1 (talk) 03:30, October 9, 2012 (UTC)