Talk: Portal Page (Nationalist China)

Why Chinese lost the Tibet? Chiang didn't recapture the Mongolia? Jordan Chang 08:59, November 26, 2011 (UTC)

Is the China is one of superpower? Jordan Chang 08:15, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Tibet declared independece when China was Nationalist. With Mongolia, I got fix that. An yes, China is one of the four superpowers or as I call them "world players". Enclavehunter 08:47, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Does China have a good relation with US? Jordan Chang 10:40, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

What the f_ _ _? Why Korea can stroger to be like a superpower? Amazing setting :O Jordan Chang 14:29, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Also I think the China can recapture the all territories that losing in Qing by the treaty. Russia in a chaos will give that away to charge the support of China. Jordan Chang 14:31, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

India

China would not damage relations by invading any country. BTW, without China invading Tibet, Tibet would be Indian as the Dalai Lama has asked whether India would like Tibet as a special adminstratve region and without China invading, India would have agreed. :D Imperium Guy 14:42, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe look like this

No. I means the Northern territories that owned by China when it is Qing, I think them will be back to China after the Soviets Collapse Jordan Chang 17:45, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

maybe this

The Soviets might collapse, but their army will remain strong. Invading them is a new World War. Not possible. :/ Imperium Guy 18:47, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think the US would allow China to invade Russia. Like I said before, I call them "world players", Korea is unified, and in OTL North Korea has 9,495,000 troops and South Korea has 8,691,500; these numbers include active, reserve, and paramilitary soldiers.Enclavehunter 20:06, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

India

Why does Tibet have India? RandomWriterGuy 20:44, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Other way round. :D Imperium Guy 20:46, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

Oops. Sorry. Then in that case, why does India have Tibet? RandomWriterGuy 22:33, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

I also think the Tibet should be independent. :/ Jordan Chang 10:08, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

In 1957, the dalai Lama offered tibet to India as a special admistrative region to protect them from the Chinese, in OTL, the Indians declined because they needed a buffer against the Communist but in this TL, with the Chinese nationalists, they will say yes because the 2 democratic powers will be more of allies rather than enemies. :D Imperium Guy 10:29, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

All world player except Russia are democracy and support US? ?_? Jordan Chang 11:00, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

All the world players after the Russian Federation is formed are democratic. :D Imperium Guy 12:56, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

China support Europe,Asia , India support Third World Country, Korea support US, Russia support (???)? Did I guess correct? Jordan Chang 16:01, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Just about what countries that the superpower will help. Jordan Chang 17:26, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

What dya mean? :D Imperium Guy 16:13, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Do you know which is bigger? China or India? :P Jordan Chang 14:53, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

I have no clue.Enclavehunter 15:09, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

India's area would be about ~ 5,644,903km2, while China's area would be about ~ 10,006,733.75km2 or about ~9,976,536.75km2. So, China would be larger. -Kogasa 16:33, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

I would say that is about right. :D Imperium Guy 16:40, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

Europe

Does Europe have some high international status similar to the superpowers? RandomWriterGuy 22:17, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Yes. The countries in Europe are praised for their fight on terrorism and economy; Switzerland is currently the headquarters for the EU (European Union) and some scientist consider the European Union as an superpower, but the UN dosn't allow them to become an superpower because the EU is an alliance and not an single country. Enclavehunter 22:57, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

What about Britain and France? Why can't they be superpowers? And if they are to be superpowers, how in this timeline? RandomWriterGuy 16:09, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

In my opinion, I don't see England as an superpower, mostly because in this timeline, England's economy went down the toilet years ago, and France. In this timeline, France becomes the new administer of all of England's former possesiongs, such as Hong Kong and Diego Garcia. Enclavehunter 16:51, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

Does that mean France still keeps its colonial empire by some sort of method? And is France more powerful than Britain? RandomWriterGuy 23:10, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

New Union-like USSR?

I was thinking that the USSR may go into a similar path during the 1980's and 1990's like how it went in this timeline . What do you think? RandomWriterGuy 23:47, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

I'll think about it, I actually like it.Enclavehunter 00:58, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, maybe some of the states break off, but some still remain. Belaurus would probably be in Russia if this happens. :D Imperium Guy 16:16, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

What ones do you think would break off, I was thinking Ukrain, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, and Latavia could break off.Enclavehunter 16:45, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe just the Baltic States, Armenia, and Georgia. Those were the states that broke off in the New Union timeline. RandomWriterGuy 23:09, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

I know, but I don't want it to be exactly like New UnionEnclavehunter 23:11, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

Questions

I have a few questions, regarding to the Althist, TL, Differences, and the Nations.

1. Is this an open timeline (my only question for the Althist)?
2. Why is half the USA population Hispanic? Having that many Hispanics enter the country is just ASB.
3. How did Southern California and Long Island become states?
4. Is it possible for the presidenct of John McCain to go something similar in this timeline?
5. Is America's reputation better in this timeline?
6. Does the War on Drugs still exist in Mexico?
7. Why would El Salvador and Panama do that? Sooner or later, the US would have to fight to liberate them.
8. Could it meen possible war against Venezula?
9. What will happen to Germany's boundries?
10. Does Britain turn its whole empire to France?
11. Why would Spain invade Andorra? Sonner or later, the European Community would have to fight to liberate it.
12. Is it possible most if not all of Europe will unite into a unified country?
13. If Afghanistan is not taken over by the Taliban, why does the international community put sanctions on the country after the 9/22 attacks?
14. Will there be a different reason for the Invasion of Iraq?
15. Does that mean war with Syria (Not for Israel, but for most of the world)?
16. How does Korea become a superpower? It's too small.
17. Tibet actually gained independence much earlier than the POD did. Do you think you think you might have to change some aprts of the timeline. And why would India invade Tibet?
18. Is it still possible for the USSR to democratize and not break-up (if the way in this timeline is disagreeable)
19. Why would India annex Pakistan?
20. How does Vietnam, Laos, and Kampuchea unite into Indochina?
21. Are the Middle Eastern uprisings a reference to Arab Spring? And do those Arab countries unite to form a United Arab republic (like the one in Nuke's Sandbox )
22. Is it possible the international community could invade Iran?

Enjoy! RandomWriterGuy 23:54, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Response to questions:

1. This timeline is an open-but-close TL, meaning you can add an article, but I'll tweek it to fit it into the TL.
2. Did I put 50%, I mean 15%; I was tired then.
3. Southern California became its own state just recently; this happened because one of the senators for one Southern California's cities suggested seccession from California to form their own state, his suggestion turned to an movement, and many of the citzens declared they wanted independence from California to form South California. As for Long Island, it was one of the proposed states in the US.
4. Whatever happened in OTL Presidency of Bush, happened in the ATL of McCain's Presidency; just different times.
5. America's reputation is better, but not better enough to make it be loved by every country on the planet.
6. Yes. Mexico, the Untied States, El Salvador, and Panama continue to fight the drug cartels to no end, like in OTL.
7. The US did not support the war, but the Central American War did occur, and thats how most border changes occur. (This TL is still under construction, so I'll be working on it).
8. Yes, but that's why the UN set up the DMZ.
9. Germany's borders did not change since World War II, the assaination of Hitler and Himmler led to the overthrow of the Nazis government
10. Not all of it, just the military bases that they no longer afford. (Remeber, still under construction).
11. Yes, I'll was planning that somewhere in the 1990s, France would lead an EU invasion and liberation of Andorra.
12. Its possible, but to me, it seems implausible due to the fact that the countries have their differences.
13. Like I said: It's still under construction.
14. No, the US (and China) will invade Iraq for WMD's, which they won't find like in OTL.
15. Yes, war is imminent and the only stopping the US is Iran.
16. Korea becomes an superpower (I call them world players) because of its military and technology level, as well as economy.
17. If that is true, then I'll do it, Please offer changes.
18. Soviet Union will democracrise, but some of the countries that were occupied after World War II become independent; pretty much leading to the pre-WII borders.
19. India did not annex them, Pakistan and India went to war with each other, leading to the Indian victory.
20. When Indochina declared Independence from France, they stayed together instead of breaking apart into OTL Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos.
21. Yes. But they will not unite.
22. The International community is still trying to do things diplomatically, but as it seems, it dosn't work.

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT I HAVE TO IMPROVE OR FIX, I WANT IT AT LEAST 90% IMPLAUSIBLE FREE. Enclavehunter 00:23, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

A few things that might be fixed:

1. Take away anything that related to Tibet being independent in this timeline. Here's Tibet's independence before Communist China in OTL took it back again.
2. Explain why Spain invaded Andorra (not just for no reason).
3. Explain how Indochina united.

Thta's it. Enjoy! RandomWriterGuy 02:17, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, RWGEnclavehunter 02:30, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

How would India and Pakistan stay together? India would be unable to control the Muslims in Pakistan and Bangladesh, they would rebel and rebel until India either let them go or the nation was in tatters. Plus, the Buddhists in Sri Lanka and Bhutan would rebel as well, just look at what is happening in Sri Lanka now, so those two territories would probably break away. Basically, India would be plunged into a giant religious civil war that would devestate the nation if it attempted to control all of these. You cannot forget nationalism, it was and is and will be a major player in the world. Also, how would it control Tibet as well? A bit hard to rule a nation when the Himalayas are between you. LurkerLordB 03:15, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Also South Sudan would probably break away like in OTL, poor South Sudan, always forgotten. :(. LurkerLordB 03:17, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know, I'm still trying to piece it together; most likely, I'll says: "India is plunged into an civil war, between Buddhists, Muslims, and the other major religion I can not remeber."Enclavehunter 03:26, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Is the religion Sikhism? Or maybe Christianity? Because the Jains are non-violent, the other religions too small, so Sikhism or Christianity is most likely, probably Sikhism more once UK left. LurkerLordB 03:36, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Here are some of My answers:

• Well, I was thinking that the Sikhs would still rebel but be crushed.
• Pakistan can be in peace, as muslims live in India in considerable peace.
• Buddhists are non-violent and don't make up a significant population of India.
• If you want, some places in Pakistan might rebel and be crushed like the Sikh rebellions of 1984.
• Civil war will probably happen but only between northern Pakistan and the rest of India (Mulims vs Hindus). Hows that??
• Also, I've explained about Tibet in the earlier posts. It will still happen here.

D Imperium Guy 10:42, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

OPEN

This TL is openEnclavehunter 07:16, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

It means I change the territories of any country? Jordan Chang 14:21, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Not the territories, but you can create new articles. Just lable them with the proposal template.Enclavehunter 14:56, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Germany

How did Germany aquirre terrritory.Enclavehunter 01:27, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Well, as a coup happened, then probably all troops would retreat to Greater Germany and negociate for peace. It also propbably won't be broken up due to its large population. Hows that?? :D Imperium Guy 10:44, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I like it, but theres one problem: a) most likely the Germans would keep the Sudentland in Chezcslovakia.Enclavehunter 03:14, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

Sure, why not!! :D Imperium Guy 15:39, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

The 1970's Oil Crisis

Have you heard of 1970's Oil Crisis? When western nations supported Israel in the Yom-Kimpur War, Arab countries responded by banning importing oil to them, casuing an economic crisis? With several other Asian countries (China, India, Indochina, Korea, Japan) involved in this, will they also be affected? RandomWriterGuy 01:45, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I've heard of it. Now that you mentioned the event, what do you think about numerous embargos on military, industrial, and food goods to the Arab nations. Enclavehunter 01:49, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Dunno about that, but maybe. As a response to the oil embargo, the US, Western Europe, and the Asian nations involved with supporting Israel would put a blockade to important goods to the Arab countries, especially food and water. This would cause so much suffering that it would cause anti-Western and anti-Asian sentiment, but in the end, everyone would have to renegotiate. RandomWriterGuy 04:51, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

Future Events

What are you planning for the TL? RandomWriterGuy 23:23, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

Don't know. Still trying to solve the nations and World War II era. Enclavehunter 23:34, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

Early Outsourcing

When China began opening up it's economy in the 70s and 80s, that is when America began outsourcing millions of manufacturing jobs to China. However, since China never turns Communist in this timeline, is it possible that America begins outsourcing millions of jobs earlier? Would China become a industrial power earlier, and become the world's biggest economy somwhere in the 80s depending on when you start the outsourcing.TacoCopper 16:57, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

That would be a good thing to look into and the opposie could aso be possible, when Chinese would outsource some of their jobs to America due to the technological superiority of the Americans. :D Imperium Guy 17:25, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think China would outsource their jobs, the only reason we send ours over there is because they have millions of people willing to work for pennies. But it could lead to a China that is like America today, in which they are heavily industrialized, have protection for their workers, and eventually start outsourcing their jobs to Africa or South America.TacoCopper 17:51, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

BUt the problem with 1 billion people is... you will never run out of people who will do jobs for almost nothing. Happens in India and they are a democracy. :/ Imperium Guy 18:14, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but wages in China have been steadily going up over the last few years because labor is starting to become less and less common. Here is an article that talks about how labour costs are the main reason that the cost of producing in China and then shiping it over here could be the same as producing in North America by 2020. India focuses more on the service industry (thats why they have all the sterotypes about Indians giving tech support, hehe). America is more competetive here, since it doesn't cost as much to give out a service as it does to make a good.TacoCopper 18:30, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

Problem!

The US Census states that 50% of all Americans will be Hispanic in 2050, but less Mexicans are fleeing to America because of Lethal Force? That contradicts each other. TacoCopper

It does, doesn't it? :P Imperium Guy 20:24, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Question

Can I help write articles for this. I can help make profile pages or events. TacoCopper

Falkand Islands

What if the Falkand Islands were secured by Argentina with secret assistance from China and India. Enclavehunter (talk) 17:21, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'm not really sure that would be viable. And the Falklands are very strongly pro-Brit (95%+). What do you think about my additions to Israel btw? :/  Imp ^{(Say Hi?!)} 18:17, January 20, 2013 (UTC)

No way Israel gets Jordan. Lordganon (talk) 07:24, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

Righty-ho! Before we get into this, I request that this discussion should not go onto anyone's talkpage and should stay on this page. 

Now, why not? Israel had military superiority and with an alternate 1956 (you have to see that China and India would be supporting Israel as well - although only logistically), they could have captured Jordan. Jordan's forces were outdated, while Israeli troops were well-trained and had good weapons.

So?  Imp ^{(Say Hi?!)} 19:21, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

Israel's forces in that era would not as good. China and India supporting them - they have no reason whatsoever to do so, as well, and really would not - would not have any real impact.

Jordan is not an area that Israel ever claimed, or desired. Not part of the Holy Land, or Palestine. Not even needed for defensive purposes, like the Golan Heights. Really, it actually would make them have control over a large area that cannot defend. All the natural defenses Israel has otl are in the rift-like valleys and around the Jordan River, both of which are more or less its eastern border.

The Jordanian government, despite its participation in the wars, was/is also far more moderate than the rest, and Israel knew it.

And, of course, most of their country would be a majority Muslim state - and a majority overall, for that matter.

There is no way that they could have captured Jordan. Not that they would have tried.

Lordganon (talk) 09:11, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Damn! Well, what about what I have written on the Israel page about them having to convert and everything?  Imp ^{(Say Hi?!)} 18:46, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

New edition

May I edit anything on the Nationalist China topic? 27.2.117.232 04:55, May 5, 2013 (UTC)