Talk: Piedmont Republic (1983: Doomsday)

Toccoa, Anderson

Wow. Great job! The one question I have is regarding painting the black extremists as black Muslims. In my limited knowledge of the 1980s and the south, Islam wasn't really on the radar in the region. Though it's canon here that racial tensions would have exploded in the south, I'm unsure that Islam would have become the face of black extremism. Perhaps the extremists were influenced by their perceptions of groups like the Nation of Islam, that would have been known nationally during the '60s and '70s?--BrianD 03:39, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

I knew of the Nation of Islam, but I was not sure if I wanted to bring them in specifically. This group of black Muslims seems to be quite influenced by the NOI, maybe even a "cell group" of the only Black nationalist group in existence in the 1980's. I created the group with NOI in mind, having not thought of their geographic distribution at the time. If it's alright, let's go with this fictional splinter group. I named the related motorcycle gang Allah's Messengers, but I think a more authoritative name ought to be used for this group that is leading over 20,000 citizens in Anderson County. This catastrophe would have been a great opportunity for the Nation of Islam to take over wherever they could. If not the NOI, then a clone.

--SouthWriter 04:48, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

I wrote the KKK into Athens, then wrote them out. I didn't want to risk attention, plus I figured using generic racists was enough to get my point across. I would change the name of the biker gang, though. I could be wrong, but I am of the understanding that Muslims are very careful about how they refer to their deity, and would not sign off on anything like 'Allah's messengers'. For all we know they might be a biker gang, but some division of the Anderson "military" (for lack of a better term). --BrianD 05:11, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

God point about Allah, but if they are a splinter, or independent clone, of the Nation of Islam, then it is the NOI that Muslims have a problem with, for they are about as radical as you can get. If they were truly Muslim's they might use a name that incorporates Allah with a Arabic word meaning Messenger or something else. My mind is fuzzy as to what to call the bikers, feel free to edit it if you can think of something or just call them a "black motorcycle gang" and leave it at that. Later. --SouthWriter 06:25, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

speaking as a history student and history nut, i think it would have been generic blacks gangs of racists/criminals/unpleasent people, rather then black muslims who would have been the trouble makers. in fact, it probably would have been in areas like whatever is left of the northern cities where NOI would have caused problems.--HAD 20:19, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

I decided to go with a fictional false prophet, born in the area, who converts to Islam and gets a cult following in the years leading up to Doomsday. The problem with using generic black gangs is that they could not sustain allegiance long enough -- or be large enough -- to cause the havoc that happens in Anderson. This threat had to be in place before Doomsday to materialize and take over a town the size of Anderson (even after the destruction of half the state below them). You are right about the NOI, the force to deal with in the south was largely liberal protestant African American ministers like Jesse Jackson and Ralph Abernathy. I think Jackson may have been in Chicago on September 25, 1983. --SouthWriter 21:43, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

After studying the NOI, I found an excellent candidate for the false prophet in a break away group that wished to be identified more with the original founder of NOI and less with "traditional" Islam. The man's name is Royall Jenkins. He founded the United Nation of Islam, which in OTL is headquartered in Kansas City. Not only is Jenkins from Greenville originally, his whereabouts in 1983 (after splitting from NOI but before publicly incorporating UNOI) were unknown. He claimed that for over a decade following the split -- 1978 to 1991 -- he was receiving instruction from "angels" in a space craft that showed him the universe AND revealed to him that he was indeed Allah in human form. His success in Kansas City after over a decade there seems to indicate that he can build a following.SouthWriter 19:40, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

What about articles for Anderson and Toccoa?

Having engaged the armies in Anderson and Toccoa, giving short synopses of the takeover of the Christian schools in the towns, I suppose it would be good to create some short articles about them as well. However, it would be better, since they are now canonized, to create them as an extension of this article.

For that to happen, we need to get the Republic of Piedmont up as a recognized article. Do I have to present a snapshot of the present day for this to come about? I haven't seen much in the way of objections since I proposed the article, and now I have tied it in to two city-states that have been recognized already. If so, I will work on it tomorrow (later today) as it just reached midnight where I am.--SouthWriter 05:04, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

I'll raise the issue again on the main talk page. I've never canonized an article before so I want to make sure I go about this right :) --BrianD 05:11, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

And, if you would like to write Anderson and Toccoa, feel free. As the writer of the 2009 WCRB article on the south, I'd like to add this additional bit of information: the WCRB scouts who came across Anderson and Toccoa didn't meet anyone but saw enough to figure out what was going on. When they got to Asheville, the locals filled them in on what they had just left. Asheville I am sure knew of Piedmont (and vice versa), and both have had good relations for years. But Piedmont didn't get mentioned to the LoN until it made a return trip to Asheville. Also, I suspect that the Anderson and Toccoa leaders know of "outsiders", if not where they specifically are from. This might mean that spies are present in the Republic. Rather than being emboldened to attack, Anderson and Toccoa might be scared as heck, thinking the rest of the world is about to finish them off. Leading to who knows what kind of mayhem.--BrianD 05:16, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. I have got to get to bed for my "beauty sleep," but I admit that the rogue states would certainly be wise to get some spies behind enemy lines. They have to either pose as refugees, or either sneak in around through Laurens county (assuming the white supremacists can elude the Black Muslims (or whatever we call them). I think posing as refugees would probably be easier. The sooner the rogues give up slavery, of course, the sooner they will be left alone. Or accepted if they can handle that. Until later, then. --SouthWriter 05:31, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Conservative or Evangelical?

In discussing the proposal, one objection was to the "Evangelical" control of the Republic. The perception that conservative Christians cannot rule without "bringing religion into it" is a common mistake. Conservative Christians believe strongly in traditional values -- the so-called Judeo-Christian world view. This foundation has shaped the west ever since the days of John Calvin and the Puritans. Even the Church of England -- which oppressed the Puritans -- was steeped in this world view.

I have listed "Robert R. Jones, IV" as the present governor of the Republic, leading some to assume that he is the heir to the power behind the University and now the Republic. However, Bob Jones, IV, chose a different route in our time line, and he would have if he had been stuck in Greenville upon graduation from BJU. In 1983, he would have been around twelve years old. He actually went away to another school (due to a disciplinary problem!) when he was in high school. And then, after returning and graduating, he became interested in journalism and a career in writing. That is the direction he goes in this ATL as well. I tend to write an article based on this after the main page gets approved as "canon."

Anyway, as a journalist, he begins to work for the local daily paper -- the new Piedmont-News (a merger of the Greenville News and the Greenville Piedmont before the G.P. went under). He would rise to editor, and then become active in politics as a conservative voice. He would have been elected in 2006, and be up for re-election in 2010.

Stay tuned --SouthWriter 05:22, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

With respect to my friends here who have differing views, I'm going to argue for the Piedmont Republic to be as steeped in Christian fundamentalism/evangelicalism as it is. It fits the culture of the time in the south and of South Carolina, and is reflective IMO of a culture that developed without 27 years of influence by U.S. pop culture, education and media. If there's any conflict at all, other than with the racial supremacist groups nearby, it probably would be between the group of fundamentalist Christians represented by Bob Jones and other Christians, including the Presbyterians, southern Baptists, etc. Not to pick on Bob Jones or anyone else, but the various denominations and church groups within American Protestantism can have some quite significant differences between them.--BrianD 05:42, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

Archived conversation from main talk page

Found at http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:1983:_Doomsday/Former_Proposals_8#Piedmont_Republic --BrianD 21:24, January 12, 2010 (UTC) ==

First contact

when did the piedmont republic make 1st contact? HAD 20:13, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

And, with whom - Asheville, East Tennessee (Morristown), or perhaps the Outer Banks or Virginia? (btw, I am assuming that the LoN knows of its existence, though the scouts missed them the first time after their experience in Anderson and Toccoa)BrianD 20:25, January 14, 2010 (UT)

That is a good question. I haven't worked much passed the war -- in fact, I am trying to side the boundaries of Anderson now. I don't think that Zahur could maintain control over the whole county. I am thinking he "claimed" the county, but had to settle for the city plus the suburbs over to Lake Hartwell and the former state line. He names the new state "the Islamic Republic of Anderson."

As far as who and when Piedmont makes contact with friendly neighbors, I can imagine it was before 1990 and probably with Ashville (Blue Ridge). I'll work on it as the next major section of the history.SouthWriter 21:39, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't see a problem with Piedmont meeting survivors from North Carolina and Asheville in the 1990s. BrianD 20:29, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

I just put up the re-election of Bill Workman as governor, after successfully achieving a brokered peace with Anderson. In 1990, there was still a preoccupation with the people to the south and the west, so exploration to the north may have been by individuals rather than any organized efforts. There would not have been any efforts to prevent anyone from trying to contact folks who might be living just over the next hill. The most likely thing keeping people isolated is a matter of being close to people they knew. Some of those near North Carolina probably headed for Asheville anyway, assuming it was safer in the mountains. They would have been right!

I can see where it might be a little while later, maybe even after the next election, before any organized connection with the north will be made. Workman would have concentrated on finding any South Carolina survivors down the Savannah and Pacolet Rivers during his second term. That will be my next installation. Perhaps I will have some unofficial explorers heading north out of curiosity. I have a friend that runs a rafting company in North Carolina while living in Greenville. It's guys like that who would seek out the unknown.SouthWriter 05:31, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

That was my thought as well, not just specifically for the Carolinas but the world in general: most exploration early on is done by individuals, looking to see what is out there. They would often be the first to discover other communities and connect their respective nation-states. Also, while you're trying to survive, you don't have the time or means to go traveling and see if other people are around the bend or if you're the only humans in existence for the next 3,000 miles.BrianD 05:50, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Religious Freedom

I understand piedmont is a conservative and christian stae, but you are still allowed freedom of religion, right? your still allowed to be a Hindu or an atheist, for example? is there predudice against non christians? --HAD 09:49, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the state (or republic) of Piedmont is a democratic republic, with it's constitution based on those of the USA and the state of South Carolina. Both those political entities had full freedom of religion. Just because conservatives are running the republic (I see nothing in the Doomsday scenario to change this), does not mean that there would be less freedom of religion. Anyone is allowed any religion or to practice no religion at all. For practical reasons, still widely held, it still is required that the governor at least acknowledge a supreme being. He and his government, though, cannot discriminate against those that do not hold that conviction.

If you have been keeping up with the story so far, you see that a conservative court in the republic has held that the neighboring Islamic Republic of Anderson, though ruled by a muslim cleric, is to be accepted as a legitimate state. It is doubtful, though, if any muslims would be welcome in the government of the Republic of Piedmont under the present tension. But the law would not preclude an attempt at a muslim to enter the political system there. In the private realm, there will always be prejudice against religions not ones own. But in housing and employment, for instance, it is illegal to discriminate on these grounds.SouthWriter 17:07, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

i was going to mention a supreme court case where acknowledgement of a supreme being a requesite to political office was struck down as unconstitutional, but the supreme court no longer exsists, does it. and apart from the PUS, neither does the old USA. HAD 17:47, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

That actually fits in with the scenario: the same reasoning that leads the Piedmont Supreme Court to rule that the Islamic Republic of Anderson is a legitimate state also would lead it to rule that the Piedmont Constitution, not the U.S. Constitution, is the law of its land. Therefore, if the Piedmont Constitution has a mandatory 'believe in a supreme being to hold office' clause, it trumps any decision previously handed down by a U.S. court.BrianD 20:21, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Brian. Yes, the new constitution, to maintain the will of the people, did "overthrow" some of the more libertarian Supreme Court interpretations of such laws that had been on the books in SC in the past. Such laws, when they were first made, had not seen any opposition - or at least not enough to reach the courts of the land. When the courts became more liberal, then a vocal minority was able to bring the laws up in court. It is still quite unlikely that any avowed atheist would be elected to the office of head of the state of South Carolina (and probably not any other state in the US) in OTL.SouthWriter 22:19, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

mores the pity! not that i don't agree with you.HAD 20:11, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Blue Ridge

Southwriter, from what i've heard, North Carolina and South Carolina were very different states before doomsday. is unificaction truely realistic?--HAD 11:10, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

HAD, I don't know about the Carolinas TTL. In this instance, it was a new (to us, anyway) editor who wrote up unification between Blue Ridge and Piedmont. That's happened to me before, when Owen put an item on the Newshour page about Portland accepting aid from Virginia (Yank was pushing for it, but I wasn't certain at the time where I wanted the scenario to go). It's annoying to say the least when someone makes a change like that instead of first raising the issue on the talk page(s) in question. As far as Blue Ridge and Piedmont, the two countries are not enemies and should be allies, but the idea of a political union seems more to come completely out of nowhere than as something that the two countries are naturally building towards. BrianD 14:14, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

I've changed it back, but the thought has definitely crossed my mind. I was going to introduce a "Carolina Republic" when I first joined this wiki, but Blue Ridge was put up before I could do it. The size and power of Virgina and Kentucky is rather intimidating, and I have been thinking about a union of not just the Carolinas but including East Tennessee. The three are bound by the backbone of the mountains and together would form a good size union. I am thinking something like the "Alliance of Appalachian States." Personally I think it would have been done a lot earlier, but I can certainly go with a LoN brokered union.SouthWriter 15:07, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

I think that's a very possible scenario, South. I also would say that the size of Kentucky may be intimidating, but the country seems to be portrayed by GOPZACK as a democracy, unlike Virginia, which Yank has portrayed as a militaristic nation looking to aggressively expand by however means it can (and has recently professed to implementing reforms aimed at restoring democracy). Such a union might want to make an alliance w/Kentucky, and more cautiously make an alliance with VIrginia. BrianD 19:55, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Ideas for history of region since Doomsday

I've gone back and retroactively mentioned Piedmont in the 2009 WCRB South article. I want to hear your ideas regarding the history of the region assuming Piedmont being an active participant in affairs as opposed to being isolationistic. I'm going to clean up the history articles for Blue Ridge and East Tennessee with this in mind as well. I still want the Knoxville government overthrown by the 'rebels', with a subsequent 2-3-year-war by the resistance (with help from Asheville and presumably Piedmont) to restore order. If the nations are aware of each other, they would have signed some sort of trade agreement or set up an alliance of sorts by the early 1990s (which would mean your proposals on such an alliance would have come true 20 some years ago in this timeline). That brings to mind if they would have more aggressively explored Tennessee, Georgia, and the rest of North Carolina and Virginia; they might have even known of Jackson, and Portland, and vice versa. Outer Banks may have to be written around (the author seems to have been someone who wrote his scenario and has not been seen since). Anyway, that's my initial proposal. I'd like to hear your take. BrianD 23:14, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Uh....I just noticed your idea for an alliance of Appalachian States above. Sorry: one month in Wiki time is like a year in real time - it's hard sometimes to remember conversations you had that long ago. Or it is for me :) BrianD 23:17, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Today I was beginning to work on some of the logistics of Toccoa, seeing as it remains a thorn in Piedmont's side (having recently bombed a river patrol!). However, with exploration to the south -- in hopes of reclaiming South Carolina as much as possible -- I am sure those in the northern parts had already made private expeditions into North Carolina and Tennessee by 1989. Georgia, on the other hand, is left only to the bravest, since that area is patrolled by Toccoan forces. That the government in Greenville had left that to others probably mean that contact with those populations has been made, but with little interactivity due to the peacekeeping forces in Anderson county (soon to be Williamston County). Much of the black population had begun to migrate to Anderson in the 90's, though the devoutly Christian blacks are finding the state religion there to be oppressive to other belief systems. That made things difficult on the southwest border into the new millennium.

I figure that the early nineties -- the next section of the history, will be a time of alliances, as you say. Meanwhile, I am going to work up something to explain the hidden folk of the midlands -- the lost state of Florence, or something like that -- which was reduced to scattered survivors by the hurricane of 1989. When the WCRB found Georgetown and Florence, they found only a remnant that had probably been a flourishing population of survivors. SouthWriter 01:31, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps, then, contact from Piedmont with the Tennessee and Asheville government would have been made first by civilian explorers in the late 1980s. Once the Tennessee situation was settled and the government reestablished in Morristown, then ambassadors would have been exchanged, followed by meetings between the respective heads of state and the signing of a trade agreement by, say, 1994? With this revision in mind, how do you see Piedmont's relations with the Blue Ridge and East Tennessee states as having developed? Would either nation help Piedmont in sending peacekeepers into the Toccoa region to keep that bunch in check? BrianD 13:16, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

I think that the "hill people" of northeast Georgia and southwest North Carolina (Blue Ridge) would have considered themselves neighbors much closer than any governments of the adjacent states could hope to be. These folk tend to be independent minded anyway. Therefore, it would be a good idea for Blue Ridge and Piedmont to work together to connect to these people as friends there for support. Being that the southernmost end of the Blue Ridge mountains is in northeast Georgia, I can see it as being an extension of the Republic of Blue Ridge.

As far as East Tennessee is concerned, it is not adjacent to Piedmont nor to the mountains of northeast Georgia. Their influence would be with the survivors between Signal Mountain, TN, and Atlanta, GA. The refugees from Atlanta and Chattanooga would have undoubtedly swelled the population of Calhoun, GA, and Gordon County, the major population center in the area. Assuming a hardier and more tolerant population than Athens turned out to be, I can see a survivor community thriving there. Since all the action in East Tennessee seems to have been in the northern parts, peacetime explorations "south of the border" may have proven profitable. SouthWriter 17:04, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Ware Shoals SC/notes and such

I am from this area, ware shoals (I corrected the spelling on the page) if I can help in anyway with background on people and the surrounding aera then le me know. I would be glad to help. Also I've got pics of the area.Wingman1 06:24, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Wingman. Good to see someone from South Carolina on board. Thanks for the offer to help. If you could find some history of the area -- mayors, councilmen, state legislatures, especially those around in September of 1983 -- it would be greatly appreciated. My scenario is mostly based on Greenville, Clemson, and Spartanburg because those are the areas I've lived among for the past 33 years. If you can get me some pictures (just insert them on this talk page), we can use them to illustrate a page about Ware Shoals and surrounding area. I have set the area up to be "ruled" by city blocks mostly at odds with each other, but survivors nonetheless. I'm thinking a decade of isolation has made them wary of outsiders. SouthWriter 17:27, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

ware shoals powerhouse

Here is a pic of the powerhouse before it was repainted.Wingman1 18:10, March 18, 2010 (UTC) Just upstream from there, and the powerhouse and dam have been in operation since the 1920's.

the ware shoals dam just upstream from the powerhouse.

I am thinking that protecting and maintaining these would be a priority for the locals.Wingman1 18:41, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

the spillway just below the Dam

Thanks for the additional picture. I had gone to Google Earth and surmised that this was probably a power station related to a hydro-electric power plant formed by what looked to be a fork formed at the waterfall. I am going to have to revise my story of the down stream exploration to account for both the waterfall (they could not navigate over it) and a hydro-electric facility (maintained or not). SouthWriter 21:47, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

I can see how the dam looks like a waterfall, it diverts enough water into a small canal to power the hydro-electric plant. All from the late 1800's to early 1900's. and as of 1983 other than routine maintenance were pretty much as constructed.Wingman1 23:48, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

I can see how this dam would be fully functional, sending electricity to the powerhouse without any electronics. However, it is in the powerhouse that the electricity is regulated and sent in controlled current to the households and businesses of Ware Shoals. It is those electronic switches and regulators that would have to be fixed.

another view below the dam

I can imagine that there are other such plants in the upstate. I seem to remember mention of such when I visited the "World of Energy" at the Oconee Nuclear Station. It seems that getting back into the twentieth century may not have taken as long as the original editors of this time line imagined. However, old style regulators may be hard to restore; so many places - like the upstate - might be stuck using battery power until they can get components from Mexico and South America.

Something, though, would probably be worked out in the mean time for places with hydro-electric facilities. i like this idea for WS.Wingman1 05:54, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

I will revise the trip down the Saluda to begin below this dam, though. Perhaps I will move the fiefdoms into downtown Greenwood. SouthWriter 00:47, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

Ware Shoals RR

This little line was built to serve a fabric mill in Ware Shoals, SC, in the early 1960s. For motive power they purchased a 44 Ton locomotive built by General Electric in December, 1943, #18159, as Chattanooga Traction Co. 3. When the CT wa

ware shoals Rail Road

s merged into the Southern Ry, it was renumbered 1955. It is apparent that there were two paint schemes during the life of the WS.

ware shoals railroad

In 1985, the line was abandoned, and the locomotive was sold to Republic Locomotive Works. i still think this would be a good idea for WS, i a not sure of thier location on DD.Wingman1 05:54, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Wingman1 09:26, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

i am looking for info on the local national gaurd unit in ware shaols, ( a com unit.) i am thinking that they would mabe merge with or back up the local police force. with the main job of makeing the town look like less of a target.

Rigel Mill, i am not sure if it was still open at that time, it was not shut down till 1985 OTL so it still was intact. (i got an idea that it's destructon by fire, due to an electrical malfunction, but what pushes them to join the Piedmont Republic.)

as far as leaders Mayor, town council and such i just got what is in the section below this one.

here is what i see happening on day one. (all going on at once)

attack warning given,

roads closed and blocked by some means. only resdents alowed in. local NG unit musters,(weapons issued) and aids in keeping order with police force. people in both, will remain in Police uniforms.

~ maybe a short sharp fight somwhere with some deaths shocking the locals. leading to the Keep our Heads down idea, althow some locals disagree, with the plan~

ware shoals churches, fill as folks gather and pray, and wait for news.

My uncle Glenn McKee was a Decon at the Ware Shoals Pentecostal Holiness Church at that time (i think) and i can see him talke a Leadership role in the Defence and/or planing for the DD aftermath.

family,aiunt and uncles and such lived close together as in some cases next door. (in my case i could look out my auint and uncle's back door and see 3 houses with my kin folk) - brings in the clannish stuff in the page. the other comeing from the town keeping it's colective head down.

this is all the rough draft notes i have right now. i will expand and update this section in the future.

thanks for the help South. Wingman1 05:54, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Public Officials

Marion Carnell

I am working on the pic's of the people, mayors and such.

Mayor at 1983: Manly Balentine, mayor of ware shoals (no pic).

State legislature (not sure when first elected) at 1983: Marion P. Carnell (pic included) Wingman1 18:41, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Check Google, for more, and Google Earth is good for a overview. And one more thing, the mill in town was still open in 1983 and the town had a rail link to the mill. If this info helps or if I could be of further assistance, let me know.Wingman1 20:18, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Google and I are good friends, and Google earth is my constant companion. This time line assumes that the electronics in modern power plants (that is, printed circuits, transistors, etc.) were put out with an electromagnetic pulse. Due to this, all electricity and many vehicles were out of service as of September 25, 1983. They would have had to been reconstructed without the use of electronic components to be used again. This process would have begun immediately after dealing with thousands of refugees that came up from Columbia and Augusta. The chaos that ensued caused a great disruption in society for years. I am assuming that engineers and engineering students at Clemson would have taken the better part of five years getting the upstate back into the twentieth century. --SouthWriter 21:47, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

the ones here would be more resistant to the EMP because they are older, if the is enough of the support persons and the know how surviving.Wingman1 23:33, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

This note should be in the above section (sorry, I inserted a "section" indicator last time I was on). However, I addressed this above -- the generation of power must be regulated at the powerhouse, which would most likely contain modern electronic components. SouthWriter 00:52, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

- sorry bout that! love what ya have done for my hometown :) i will be looking for more local politicians and, influential persons from the Ware Shoals aera. ( i am enjoying this! this is fun!)Wingman1 05:02, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

i put a pic up of Theo Mitchell on the main page, if any problem just let me know.Wingman1 19:38, June 11, 2010

(UTC)

Thanks for the insert. It worked well. I had a pic of Liz Patterson I got from Wikipedia a while back, and this reminded me, so I put it in. SouthWriter 02:39, June 12, 201 (UTC)

no problem, i just wish i had time to do bunches more! so many ideas, so little time! lol!Wingman1 10:44, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

New Map

For some reason I had never put up a map of Piedmont. This map shows the present counties and proposed annexation of adjoining counties. It also shows the Islamic Republic of Anderson. I hope to be putting some work into this article this week to bring it up to the present. SouthWriter 18:17, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Terrorism

I managed to up the stakes in the "warm war" with neighboring Toccoa, CSA. I have mentioned earlier that there were occasional terrorist activity, but I decided to produce a "9l11" sort of attack that turns out to be even worse than that on NY in OTL. I chose 1/1/2001 instead, that being the 15th anniversary of the Piedmont Republic's founding and the official beginning of the twenty-first century.

Conventional explosions, planted by deep cover terrorist over the course of several months, accomplish an implosion of Greenville Memorial Auditorium in an indoor event designed for families as an alternative to the more rowdy millennial celebration at the Municipal Stadium near Mauldin. Over 4,000 people die, and hundreds more are permanently disabled. This brings things to a serious note as the article moves into the present. Hopefully this event is not too drastic to cause ripple effects on the whole time line. I think that the other editors of articles about the southeast American states will be able to work it into their story lines. Or at least I hope so. --SouthWriter 18:30, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

I hate that you had to kill off 4,000 people, but this is a dystopia (in some sense of the word). It actually helped me redevelop Blue Ridge history in the '00s, and probably with East Tennessee (which is vastly underdeveloped in that time period), so I thank you for that. I look forward to seeing Piedmont coming into the present day. BrianD 03:21, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

We imploded the auditorium on purpose in 1998 in OTL, so that gave me the idea. I had written that the terrorists were a problem, and I think the bombing of the patrol boat in December, 2009, tipped the hat of the terrorists, exposing them for good. The Jones administration reacted swiftly, in a hard nosed way that gives conservatives a "bad name."

Just a peak of what's to come. Jim Demint, the present lieutenant governor in TTL, turns out to be more attuned to the libertarian wing of the Republican party than governor Jones. The friendship between the former publisher and businessman-turned-politician was strained and Demint won the primaries last month. Though Demint is the "most conservative" senator in OTL, his fiscal conservatism overrules the social conservatism of Jones. Its looking like a shoe-in for Demint unless Jones runs as an independent. I haven't decided who is on the Democratic ticket - it'll probably be someone from Spartanburg County, though. --SouthWriter 04:47, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ware Shoals (1983 Doomsday) notes and stuff pt 2

love the new sections here.Wingman1 03:58, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I aim to please. But throw in your two cents, man, we're neighbors. How about some action down among the fiefdoms of Ware Shoals? Neighborhood rumbles, kingdom building - survival of the fittest, you know? Cause a ruckus. Or perhaps, get tired of the struggle and migrate to the Republic of Piedmont (before 1/1/1). This timeline is not "live" just yet, so if I haven't mentioned it, you can fit it it). Or cause a ruckus on the southern border any time in the past decade of heightened security! Some of the fiefdom chiefs of Ware Shoals might be mistaken for Taccoans! SouthWriter 04:16, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking that the idea of fiefdoms was being a way of making Ware Shoals less of a target, this giving them time to get on their feet, if the bad guys think you do not have anything worth stealing they leave you alone?

maybe a sort of uneasy peace in the area, maybe a sort of neutral area that nobody is much interested in. till the Piedmont Republic moves in, say late 1990's?

maybe a defense force built from the local P.D, and the local army national guard unit?

(I can see them actually doing something along those lines:Wingman1 05:29, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

link here http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/111sig.htm. )

was just looking for this link. lol!Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

• Units
• HHC likely lost on DD,
• Alpha Company - Abbeville likely lost on DD,
• Bravo Company - W. Columbia likey lost on DD,
• Charlie Company - Myrtle Beach likely lost DD,
• Delta Company - Hodges armory located across the road from High School in Ware Shoals.Wingman1 05:29, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Wouldn't some problems with an outlaw or bandit or two dealt with harshly discourage the "worst" of that sort of thing? i can see this.Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

How do you feel about a ware shoals page on here?Wingman1 05:06, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

I say go with it. Let's assume a cache of shielded components in a secured position somewhere in Greenwood county. The fiefdoms are at least a more or less peaceful way of dealing with the crisis, and without communications for years could have been expected. yes!Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

The local police and Guardsmen should be able to work well under the civilian direction of the Ware Shoals mayor's office. yes!Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

I figure this defense force would have been working all along covertly in the peace keeping efforts in Anderson - and especially in the ongoing "warm war" with Taccoa. How else could the Republic develop television years before contact with the "advanced" civilizations of the southern hemisphere? SouthWriter 14:28, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

real life is being a pain in the rear end right now. my computer has died and i am on someone elses. : (

between that and work, i realy do not have much time, and when i will get time i can't say. (gotta love McDolands! lol! )

i am kinda catching my internet as i can, till i get a new computer. but i love the ideas you have just gave me.

i just hope my "talents" as a "writer" can do them justice! LoL!Wingman1 18:33, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

When you get time, jot down the ideas the old fashioned way. And then, when you get a chance you can run them by me. I'll be glad to guide you through the process of putting those ideas into a story. SouthWriter 21:36, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

just now rembered this section from before when we tossed around this idea before.Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

give me a day or 3 and i might have somes stuff to for review.Wingman1 09:29, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

Wow, almost two years and we're still at it! I look forward to your ideas. I am not sure if a separate "Ware Shoals (1983: Doomsday)" article will work, but a section on a "History of Piedmont" article might be good. I really should have created one of those when the history section got so large. SouthWriter (talk) 16:27, June 4, 2012 (UTC)

work is going to have me snowed under for a bit i might have somethis for you in about a week. Wingman1 06:10, June 5, 2012 (UTC)

added a line and section to the page. i will post any new stuff on the talk page first so you can review it first.Wingman1 19:21, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

I removed the section heading and replaced the words "Ware Shoals" with the sentence you added. I put the town's name in bold print and we can link it to a section on the History page when I created it. I have projects I need to work on before that, but I'll get to it some time. :-(

Anyway, thanks for the interest in improving the article. SouthWriter (talk) 20:27, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

no problem, i will do more after latter.Wingman1 20:35, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

location of the The water treatment plant for WS. is more or less inside the town borders. name of street underlined.(in pic)

high school location circled in red,Wingman1 20:57, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Google Earth pic of WS.

i am thinking an lookout post some where to the left, (on the pic). would be a spot for a lookout post.Wingman1 10:40, June 9, 2012 (UTC)

still putting together my notes.Wingman1 11:02, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

i am starting to get discouraged here.Wingman1 06:53, June 14, 2012 (UTC)

Baseball

Hi, Brian. A couple of things. First, baseball would have been promoted from Greenville from the very beginning. We had just built a new stadium for the coming of the Greenville Braves. I put a blurb on the "Stadium and Grounds" page about starting up the Piedmont Baseball Association in 1986. I had meant to incorporate this into the warp and woof of the article, but alas, other articles came up, and I have not developed my "home page" as much as I wanted to. However, I do mention that Governor White was speaking at the Stadium the night that the Auditorium was destroyed (the terrorist attack of 1-1-1).

Second, the team was a farm team for the Atlanta Braves, and in our time line is now the Greenville Drive, a farm team of the Boston Redsox. In this time line, though, they would most likely have remained the Braves by their own right. This presents a problem with the naming of the Rome team the "Braves" at this late date. I know that Rome is the successor of Atlanta, but baseball has long been established in Greenville long before the rebirth of the Southern League "in 2011." Can this be back written into the scheme of things, or perhaps with the league being established the regional leagues could be worked into it.

I am sorry that I have not built up the local pages like I had intended. I suspect that my latent ADD is the culprit. I need to hone the skill of "hyper focus"! SouthWriter 03:48, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

Other old team names for Greenville are the Spinners, Mets, Red Sox, Rangers, and the Mountaineers. Braves is the most likely name, however, though a case could also be made for Spinners given its long historical use. Lordganon 15:58, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

I'll fix it, South, per your request. I saw a reference to the Greenville Braves having begun play in 1984, and had thought the stadium may not have been finished on Doomsday. BrianD 17:43, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

Brian, thanks. Yes, it was our pride and joy! Of course, I am not sure that any of the players had already moved to the area in anticipation of the 1984 season, but the stadium was "finished" about the time the bombs fell ("fall of 1983"). As I put it in "Stadiums and Grounds" entry, it would be a shame to let the new stadium go to waste. I am sure that we would have called the team "the Braves" even if none of the players from elsewhere had shown up.  :-)

Thanks, LG. Baseball goes way back to the mill teams that gave rise to the "Spinners." After all, Greenville was the "Textile Center of the South." On that theme, I would suggest the movie (not yet out on DVD) "Milltown Pride" which portrays milltown baseball in the 1920's. I haven't seen it (missed the premier here in Greenville last weekend), but actually tried out for a part. It is unashamedly "religious," being a production of Bob Jones University, but it is also a quality work for the same reason. I checked, and there is a showing May 20th just about 20 minutes from where you live (Harvest Hills Baptist Church, Yukon, OK).

Back on topic, the team in Greenville would most likely remain the Braves given the fact that MLB was destroyed on Doomsday. The revival of the Southern League is just an extention of what already has been going on "locally" for at least a decade in this time line. I figure that the Braves would have taken to playing semi-pro teams based in Spartanburg, Clemson, and Asheville, among other places. SouthWriter 17:59, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

Afraid that neither baseball nor churches are my thing by any means South, but thanks for the tip.

I assembled a few lists of team names - i.e. several sports, in virtually all atl NA nations, lol - few months back for some reason. If you need a team name in a sport, just ask and I may have something, lol.

Lordganon 18:18, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

new pic!

Governor James Warren "Jim" DeMint

thouht you might like the pic. i saw it on another page here. and tought it would be great here.Wingman1 01:36, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Wing. When you get time, I'd like to see some ideas as to what might be happening in your neck of the woods in the 1983DD. As of now, I think, Williamston County has been annexed to the state of Piedmont. Of course, there are those pesky "Andersonians" next door (no real problem, it seems, when compared to the guys from Taccoa!). SouthWriter (talk) 03:44, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

i will see what i can do, i am haveing to edit from a phone right now.Wingman1 05:09, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Adoption

I would like to adopt this page. Gerriandour (talk) 06:20, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

As it would appear Gerri is no longer interested in contributing to Doomsday, I will be moving forward with this article - it is more than likely that I will be giving this the same treatment I've been giving Cuba and NC. Goal is, as always, to respect the canon of the writers that came before while expanding heavily on what is written. Curmudgeonly yours - Crim 07:26, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Adoption has passed, I'll begin working on this shortly! Curmudgeonly yours - Crim 17:33, 24 January 2024 (UTC)