Territories of the effected rebellion maybe??
You could have the revolution having happened after the Italo-Turkish War (1911–12) or maybe the Balkan Wars (1912–13). Might work!! :D 
Imperium Guy 22:45, October 15, 2011 (UTC)
PoD[]
So the PoD is the Ottomans suffering a minor revolution before WW1, and Franz Ferdinand surviving, maybe because the bullet didn't hit him in the jugular. The problems I see are this.
1. The Austrians never really had much problem with the Italian front, because the terrain there is almost absurdedly biased towards the defense. The Germans launched an offensive there in a bid to knock Italy out of the war, not that the Italians did much anyway, or in an effort to cause the current Italian government to collapse and be replaced by one more favorable to peace.
2. The Ottoman didn't join the war until November 2. It was a calculated decision by the Young Turks that the Germans were bound to win, and so they could join the war, do nothing, and reap the spoils at the negotiating table. With the Ottoamsn not in the war, a revolution in Russia is actually less likely, since the supply lines through the Turkish Straits would still be open.
Just my thoughts Azecreth 13:50, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Actually, with those lines open, it'd be virtually impossible to happen.
Add to that that the Bulgarians, without the Ottomans involved, would never have got into the war. The Serbs would literally have fought over every inch and probably held out for the whole war, too, as a result.
Lordganon 13:56, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
What we have here is that, with Italy in the Central side, they send troops to fight France, keeping them distracted and helping the Germans to defend themselves better against Russia and help their Austro-Hungarian allies. Also, with no-America, German troops could still survive up-until 1919, possibly causing Russia to enter revolution, because the Germans would still release Lenin, if I'm not wrong. This is what I think happens. Imperium Guy 13:57, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Bulgaria could be bribed by the Germans, by them telling that they could get moree territories. Imperium Guy 13:58, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Actually, the Italians wouldn't make it very far against the french either, since they would have to go through the Alps to get to anything worth invading in France. A smaller french force there could hold off the Italains for a long time because once again, the terrain is biased towards defense.
Initially, people thought Lenin's push for "peace at any cost" was crazy, since they thought they had to keep fighting to safeguard the revolution. With an improved military situation here due to adequate supplies, he's even less likely to be listened to. Not to mention the fact that he didn't go to Russia until after the February Revolution, when the Germans thought there was a chance of knocking out Russia.
I'm not so sure about Bulgaria not joining, however, since a big motivation for them to join was revenge for their defeat in the Second Balkan War. Azecreth 14:06, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Maybe they could launch an offensive there as well as help the Germans up north. Another thing is that there are no victors in the First World War and turkey could close the supply line while not declaring war, thus, if the Russians want their supply lines open, they would declare war on a neutral country, which they did not do. Imperium Guy 14:23, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
I doubt the Russians would have much of a problem declaring war on the Ottoman Empire. There is no love lost between the two. And if you combine the Russian Black Sea fleet with the Allied landings at Gallipoli, and have the go at it at the same time, they could force the Straits. Azecreth 14:28, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Exactly, Az.
But, there is no reason at all to do something as, honestly, obviously stupid as declare war on them. The Ottoman declaration about the Straits actually had nothing to do with Russia - it was actually illegal for them to do it otl - and everything to do with the secret alliance they had signed with the Germans before the war even started otl - which is obviously not the case here. Thus, no supply loss here.
That may have been motivation, but believe me when I say that Bulgaria would not have joined without the Ottomans. The Bulgarians were very much on the fence about joining at all the entire time, and in the end it came down to them rather dealing with the Serbs than the Ottomans, who were already in the war for a year by that point. But without the Turks...... well, Allied promises are just that much more tempting. And they'd have been on their own, here, too.
Lordganon 14:33, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I can accept that. I think we've proved our point sufficiently. I would join, but before I can I would like the PoD reworked sufficiently, and an algorithm written up for combat and expansion. Azecreth 15:26, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Give me your pointers and the PoD will be changed. However, I still want Fraz Ferdinand alive please!! :D Imperium Guy 15:50, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
1. Remove the Russian revolution, and have Russia be 1 nation under a monarchy, if a bit unstable.
2.Germany still loses. Poland doiesn't have to be independent, but Russia should probably get East Prussia, and lose Alsace-Lorraine.
3. Congo should be given back to Belgium.
4. A-H can still exist, I guess, but more unstable, and Serbia should be given Bosnia and Herzengovina so they can make Greater Serbia.
That's all I can think of. If LG has any other idea's then he'll probably voice them. And I want a conflict algorithm. Azecreth 16:48, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Well, the Bulgarian territories are impossible, and with the PoD itself, Libya is Italian.
Nor is, no matter the industrialization you claim for the Ottomans, an annexation of Persia in any way realistic.
Lordganon 16:52, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Forget the thing about Persia, not plausible (I didn't make the map game). The war was a draw. The conflict algorithym will be there soon. Germany doesn't need to lose, Russia and Germany would wear each other out, Russia gits a bit of East Prussia while Germany lose only a bit, not all, of Alsace-Lorraine. No revolution in Russia. Libya is Italian, ok. Belgium was occupied, so Congo is a bargaining tool. Sebia making Greater Sebia is not possible because although Serbia might hold out, they cannot get Austro-Hungarian territories. Imperium Guy 17:05, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Russia would not get any German territory and Germany would not lose alsace lorraine. Seriously stop changing the game completely. Kunarian 17:09, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
I quit[]
Seriously this was just Implausablity 101 from the moment you guys started commenting. So I will quit and watch you ruin this game because the ammount of changes you are doing to suit YOUR needs instead of making an interesting timeline, is seriously mad. Kunarian 17:11, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
The PoD's still the same. This is all hypothetical, nothing has happened as of yet. Imperium Guy 17:22, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
And I did not start this. Imperium Guy 17:28, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Well, Kunarian, i'm sorry that I have to point out those things so the game makes sense. if the PoD isn't possible then the game will just end up being bad. and how is anything we are suggesting implausible? Azecreth 17:40, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Make sense? its pretty obvious that you want russia as a whole, when its completely implausable that it wouldn't of had a revolution unless you create another POD and thats just stupid, it is likely however that Russia could have split into these three states, even more perhaps. The game was fine until you started trying to make Germany weak and Russia powerful. Kunarian 17:46, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Did you not hear what me and LG just said?
Russia can stay adequately supplied through the Turkish Straits, which stay open since the Ottomans aren't in the war. Russia gets all the ammunition they need from the Brits and the French, or the Americans who can supply them as they are noncombatants. The Italian Navy is a joke, and in OTL mainly contented itself with keeping the Austrians cooped up in the Adriatic. At the most, the February Revolution occurs later, with no October Revolution.
Nobody will accept a draw in this situation. Either the Allies win, or the Central Powers win. We've already said how a German victory is even more impossible with an adequately supplied Russia. If the Allies win, which they do due to the Germans refusing to use unrestricted submarine warfare, and the allies technological advantage (the Allies used tanks first, and the Germans never really caught onto the idea in OTL), then Germany would be forced to give up Alsace Lorraine. The French wouldn't accept anything less. Maybe the Germans can keep East Prussia, with the exchange of Austria-Hungary losing Galicia.
Oh, and why isn't Romania on the map? The Bulgarians wouldn't be able to outright annex them, nor would they want to, since the Romanians would just start a guerilla resistance. Azecreth 20:21, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Ok, have you ever studied WW1? well if you had you would have realised that if the Italians were on the Central powers side then Germany would never have gone to unrestricted submarine warfare and Paris would probably be in German hands straight away due to Italian forces keeping a good amount of the French distracted in the south. Also why no October revolution? No reason? well sorry bub, no reason, no change.
A close draw would probably be most likely in this situation, meaning that political stability in all major nations would be at an all time low because either the Central Powers win or They win by a margin. Also an adequately supplied Russia would be able to fight off Germany? nope sorry but the only thing that stopped the Germans was the cold and the sheer ammount of troops Russia could bring to the front, supplied or not, Russia would not win especially with a fully mobilized Austrian front no matter how bad their armies are the Russian forces are worse.
The only thing I agree on to a degree is Bulgaria. Plus they have annexed them now let them deal with those querilla fighters and considering the Bulgarian claim to them they would want to annex them however wouldn't so I will put Romania back in play. Kunarian 20:52, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
I'm not part of this map game, but this discussion is starting to become ridiculous. You're apparently not paying attention, Kunarian, to what people are saying.
In the first place, the War would be more of a landslide towards the Allies without the Turks; they didn't do much, but they still distracted a bunch of the Russian army in the front located in the Caucasus mountains, which are extremely hard to traverse by foot soldiers, even more in 1917. Besides, as Azcereth and LG have said several times before, the Bosporus is still open. The Bosporus was the main center of supplies to Russia since the Germans could block Petrograd easily; do you know why was the Gallipolli offensive, almost imposible to successfuly end, was launched in the first place?
Secondly, both Italy's and Austria's armies were extremely unprepared for mountain or large scale warfare; the Russians would've pushed the Austrians around, something they did in OTL until the German aid came. Besides, Italy's army would not have gone much past Nice and Savoy; the French would not have distracted more than a few soldiers south to stop them there.
The War would have been partially victorious in Russia; the peasants wouldn't have joined the images of the war and the Tsar; therefore, the Revolution wouldn't have gone much farther than the 1905 one. Maybe a permanently pro-people's Duma, but no more.
Finally, if the Revolution did happen, and it wouldn't, Russia wouldn't have been divided like that. Fed (talk) 23:02, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
As someone who has studied the First World War and its origins, under an expert on the subject, I can honestly say that Kun doesn't have the slightest idea what he's actually talking about.
Not a card I want to play, and one that's.... wrong, or maybe bragging? Either way, I suppose, it's probably wrong for me to say it, but that line from Kun - "Ok, have you ever studied WW1?" - is insulting to all of us. Besides my credentials, a full, accurate, version of WWI is part of the school curriculum in almost every western country.
Fed, Imp, and Az are entirely correct.
Lordganon 06:50, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
In short, Kun, you're the one here not being plausible, at all. Lordganon 06:55, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
Seriously, you think that Russia would be able to defeat full Austria and Germany? no matter how many supplies they have! considering even a few distracted french to the Italian front (which could easily be a large number like 1 million and up) could have easily led to an instant German victory due to the fact that they got 20km range of Paris. Ever consider that? No because unless your speaking about Russia, its not worth it! Not once have I seen you speak about the Italian front. No! If your a historian with so many credentials, then enlighten me! How can the Italians not have made a difference! Also state which events wouldn't have happened to cause the october revolution. go on. I know in depth may be hard for you even though you sprice up your post. Give some actual details that may convince me instead of insulting me and acting like a stuck up twit Kunarian 07:11, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
Insulting? I'm only speaking the truth in response to insults.
Past that, Fed, AZ, and Imp have already covered everything. In great detail. But to satisfy you, I suppose I will reinforce them.
The Italian Army was incompetent.
A supplied Russia. Key word here: SUPPLIED. A Russian bear with weapons and food will not have a revolution, nor will it lose on the front so badly. You also have the heavily armed Caucasus Armies on the Eastern Front.
Post a remark like that again, and you're gone for a while.
Lordganon 07:51, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
If what I said was an insult then all your doing is responding to insults with insults. And yet still no in depth evidence, give me evidence and I will change my position faster than you can even think about repsonding to this post. EVIDENCE, facts, statistics. Also if you think map games are so implausable why are you even posting on them?
Also stop trying to flex your admin muscles, the most offencive thing I wrote was stuck up twit, and thats hardly offensive frankly in my opinion even though you may find it insulting. And if you do then you should be able to understand how I find it insulting when you say that I don't have the slightest idea what I'm talking about, its a complete insult to my intelligence. Stop being a hypocrit and either give evidence or just stop. 193.200.145.154 08:01, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
I have not insulted you once. We have given you evidence, which can be easily referenced from wikipedia. You have refused to do so, and called us all implausible, insulting all of us in the process. Nor is it in any way "abuse."
See you in a week. I hope you act better in the future.
Lordganon 08:08, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
Guys, lets not fight here, if we do, where will the war algorhithym go, lol. A few changes to the PoD, nothing major. I am actually wondering if anything can be done so Russia gets as agitated as it did. Also, what would be the difference if Germany only attacked supply ships like they did. From what I know, rationing in WW1 (in Britain) only began in 1917/1918. So the German unrestricted U-boat thingy got them into more trouble themn possibe.
It is not good, in my opinion, that someone got banned. And I think the PoD is plausible, just not as much as other timelines and needs a bit of working on. :/ Imperium Guy 10:05, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
Simply put, I warned him. He failed to listen. Simple.
Agitated? Exactly how are you meaning? Because there's a different answer depending on what you mean.
Impossible to tell supply ships from others.
Lordganon 11:53, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
As in how they were in WW1, ready to stop fight the Germans. :/ Imperium Guy 12:35, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
Frankly Lordganon there is no point arguing with you because you'll just ban people and not actually look at what you might have done, so I'll enjoy my games and you can enjoy your chats. Have fun. - Kunarian
No seriously, romania should be independent. the only conflict between Bulgaria and Romania was over the Dobruja region. The Bulgarians wouldn't have annexed Romania if they only wanted that. and what might LordGanon have done. we've rationally explained our arguments, and have gotten insults in return.
The russian agitation was because the Austrians and the Russians never liked each other, and the Russian propoganda machine framed the austrians as anti-slavic crusaders, since they were trying to conquer serbia, Russia's self-proclaimed protectorate. Azecreth 17:43, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
I agreed on the Bulgarian point. Also Azecreth you never got insults at most you got an attitude the only people who got insulted was I and Lordganon, My general intelligence was insulted and he was called a stuck up twit.
Also I agree on your second point, Bulgaria would have to deal quite heavily with Serbian partisans, and considering the black hand (serbian terrorists) were responsible for the death of the Austria-Hungarian heir to the throne and their actions in the war, i seriously doubt it would be one that could be put down in a year.
Also another point you might want to look at is how the Germans retained their Asian colonies after the Japanese and British completely occupied them. - Kunarian
You insulted all of us, previously. You obviously have failed to even get that concept. And now you're trying to get around the block. See you in a month, then.
Russia's motives and reasoning for joining would remain the same, then Imp.
Lordganon 18:59, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
Nope, I asked a simple question, Have you even studied WW1? and frankly only you took that as a serious insult. Also you are taking everything as a personal issue, abusing you administrative powers. Anyway, I'll continue posting, I have a million ways to get around your blocks and will not stop until we talk about this instead of you simply taking a small insult too far. - Kunarian
You know, he can block your IP address, not just your user name. And the German colonies in Asia and Africa are wierd. The Japanese joined expressly to get those territories, and honestly, the Germans have no way of forcing Japan to give them back. Same with the African colonies, since the british navy still reigns supreme. Azecreth 19:43, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
I do know that he can block my adress as he consistantly tries but I am taking it up with the other Brass anyways, considering what he is doing here is clearly abuse of power. Also yes I agree on both points, but how can we change the game now that it has started? considering a lot has happened in the last year, its a bit irreversible, this has just become a bit of a speculation talk however if we can intergrate these changes into the game I am all for it. - Kunarian
Well, I dunno. I'll probably make my own map game, and it should work out well, since I'll have it very structured. Azecreth 20:20, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
How do you mean structured? like mine with a lot of rules or in another way? - Kunarian
Like Principia Moderni, only maybe in a different time period. And probably some different rules. Azecreth 21:05, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
League of Nations[]
Does this organization exist? I mean, the League was created after the WWI, may be I don't see the the test of the PoD very well...--Galaguerra1 19:47, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure. There is a chance, but it depends. :/ Imperium Guy 19:57, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
Or maybe build another similar organization. Although alliances may have independent and polarized at this rate. (Jaeden Cuenta Cuentos 18:03, October 18, 2011 (UTC)).
I do agree, regional blocks would be more powerful (like the one we are forming!!) It would take time for a LoN like organization to form. :D Imperium Guy 22:12, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
Colonial Territories of Spain[]
Spain at this time was a colony in Morocco, Sidi Ifni. I thought I was on the map but is not. (Jaeden Cuenta Cuentos 18:02, October 18, 2011 (UTC)).
You mean Morocco was a colony of Spain? Because no non-euro power has controlled any part of mainland europe (besides the turks) for a very long time.
Bobalugee1940 23:41, October 19, 2011 (UTC)
Game Restart![]
It has been getting to complicated from the start and I wasnt here, so I restarted it. Please keep playing, it can still be a great game!
DeanSims 21:18, October 21, 2011 (UTC)