All righty....
If Wenatchee were still surviving, it would be the capital, and the republic would not be referred to as "Leavenworth" in any way, shape, or form. So, it must be gone from the chaos.
It's not going to control the entire county. Looking at a map of the area, it's pretty obvious that they can't. Most of it is forested, and a long way over the mountains to get to. Leavenworth is also at the southernmost tip of the county, meaning the north of it is pretty much impossible for them to get to at all.
The otl population and area are not happening. This is in a world after Doomsday, and your article even mentions starvation, meaning both are impossible. I'd say maybe a quarter of the county, at most, and only a few thousand more than what Leavenworth has for a population otl.
That's probably too early to declare "independence."
Your map is way off. This republic would be a little, tiny, speck in between Victoria and Pasco, both of which even control some of this county. And, they both control a fair sight more than you have them doing.
Who are these people you have as President and Vice-President? Surely you can find some real people, not fake ones or members of your family.
As for the article itself, have a look at the Matlock article. It's a city-state like you're attempting here in Great Britain, and would be a very good comparison for this as well as a general model with regards to size, etc. that this would have.
Lordganon 02:10, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
Again, entry into Okanogan County is not realistic. It's too far, with only a single real highway between them that cuts through several different valleys and passes.
Some tourists may be possible, but I have to doubt it. And, given all things, it would only be those from Victoria. Pasco is acknowledged as not being in contact with anyone until well after 1999, and indeed, 2004, as well.
And, Bavarian Culture? That's not realistic either. They may have set up the town for tourists in that style, but in no way does that make it Bavarian in culture.
Lordganon 04:31, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
On the other hand ...[]
Okay, I have to offer counterpoints to the negativity above. :-)
I am an incurable optimist, I suppose, but perhaps we can work the tourist town into a viable city-state. The way it looks to me, the town is in a very good location - a fertile valley on a river protected by mountains. It is the last town of any size up stream from the major population center at Wentachee. Being located only twenty miles away, though, I don't see it being 15 months or more before contact with survivors in Wentachee. Contact would be within months, if not weeks, since the trip downstream on or along the Wenatchee River would naturally connect the people in the towns along it. Isolationism, especially in a small town not far from the county seat, would be unlikely.
Perhaps, in the chaos following the bombings to the southwest and to the east, the county government in Wentachee fell apart. The more fertile and productive towns upstream proved to be attractive as a new base of operations for leaders from the 'big city.' Maybe it would not have been 'locals' that overthrew the mayor of Leavenworth but Wentacheeites promising security in times of turmoil. Seizing upon the Bavarian village theme, the new government touted the valley as a haven for the 'simple life' as the electricity from the hydro-electric facility at Lake Chelan disappeared due to the EMP.
As to the population, I don't see wide spread starvation in Leavenworth (quite an agricultural center with few markets after the bombs fell) but the larger city of Wentachee would be reduced due to dependence on shipments from further away. If we take the approximately 20,000 people in Wentachee and figure a lot of chaos there we can reduce the county's population from about 47,000 to maybe 35,000 by the summer of 1984. As refugees from Chelan and vicinity came down river to the county seat, the city government there could have collapsed due to the influx, electing to move to Leavenworth. Anyway, the shift of population may have contributed to more deaths, but a sustained population of 30,000 or so would be certainly possible. Over the years, with a modest 1% growth rate, the 2010 population could be around 38,000 or so in 2010.
Just some thoughts. I hope you can work out the kinks and make a go at this. SouthWriter 15:36, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
I like this suggestion. --M.J.K. 17:42, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
Jeez, since when is pointing out flaws negativity? o.o
Anyhoo, as King noted, this thing cannot control Wentachee, for it is already part of Pasco. The rest of that is kinda what I meant, though the population is way off.
Lordganon 08:22, June 17, 2011 (UTC)
- I seem to remember pointing out that the "Pasco Free State" seemed a bit big back when it was proposed, but so be it. Yes, This "thing" as you want to call it, will have to be a small separatist group that retreated to the fertile foothills to live a quiet uncomplicated life. The population will have to be cut to about what OTL is for the town of Leavenworth, but it can work as a separate city-state. I would think by now it would have become part of Pasco as a matter of practicality. The Pasco article mentions the airfield at Wentachee as one used to scout for renegades, so the population at Leavenworth would certainly be known. SouthWriter 15:18, June 17, 2011 (UTC)
- While Pasco may not exercise total control over every square inch of Eastern Washington, the use of airfields in Eastern Washington is pretty commonplace. There are a bevy of small airfields and people with tiny prop planes, so getting from Wenatchee to the Tri-Cities or Yakima would not be terribly difficult, although it may be less practical to travel these great distances by vehicle. That is way Wenatchee was, when the PFS was proposed, more of an outpost than a central portion of the Free State, sort of a distant base with which to survey Chelan County. As SouthWriter said, though, the PFS - maybe not instantly, but at least by the mid-2000's - would know about people in Leavenworth or in Chelan, having made use of the Wenatchee airfields.
- KingSweden 20:51, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
Washingtonian to the Rescue![]
I've been to Leavenworth and Chelan before, both were wonderful vacations. Great towns, great atmosphere, and there's no better place to be on Memorial Day Weekend than on Lake Chelan with the rest of the state partying and enjoying the sun.
THAT SAID, I agree with Lordganon's argument that Leavenworth would in no way, shape or form be the capital of this republic. I COULD foresee a large stream of refugees pouring into Wenatchee along Highway 2 from the Monroe/Everett area, since Everett doesn't appear to have been hit by a nuclear warhead on Doomsday (which I find a little hard to believe, since half the city works at the naval base located there).
Continuing on that point about Everett, however, is that if Victoria controls Everett, then they would most likely have a strong presence over in Chelan County too. Highway 2 runs from Everett eastwards through Lake Stevens and Monroe, through Stevens Pass in the Cascades, and winds up in Wenatchee. It's about a two hour trip by car from Monroe, where my roommates all are from, so Victorian soldiers could easily make the trek and have an outpost on the Eastern side of the mountains set up from which to trade with Pasco, Spokane and whatnot.
In fact, I think this is the best usage of what we could call the "Chelan Republic," if the creator insists on maintaining its independence - a crossroads of sorts between Pasco and Victoria for land commerce, not a regional power. Considering how mountainous and unpopulated much of that area is, that makes a lot more sense - a stopover point.
I myself have proposed a small survivor community in the Cascade foothills (Issaquah-Snoqualmie (1983: Doomsday)) which would serve a similar purpose, but since it lies across irradiated Seattle from Victorian territory and is pretty dinky, it wouldn't serve as the same kind of trade center that Wenatchee conceivably could.
Just a thought.
KingSweden 18:08, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
It also appears that the PFS is formally (but perhaps not practically) in control of territory as far north as Wenatchee - so this article may conflict with canon, unless the Leavenworth Republic is really small.
KingSweden 18:13, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
The Naval Base at Everett only began construction in 1987. And it is, indeed, part of Victoria.
However, their real control of the area is only in the last few years. Yet, at the same time, Pasco is in contact with the NAU, which only got in contact with the outside would very recently, meaning that this state cannot be in contact with Victoria before then.
Can't believe I forgot about that section in the Pasco article. Yeah, This thing cannot control Wenatachee, as it is part of Pasco.
Lordganon 08:19, June 17, 2011 (UTC)
Do whatever ya' like to my page, as long as it's accurate. --M.J.K. 17:22, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
Wow Population![]
do you think that a population of 72 million + is a touch high for an area covering just under 3000 square miles? that works out at 24,000+ per square mile! to give you a rough idea the population density of real life LA is only 19,000 per sq Mi.
do you not think that taking the three zeros of the end would make more sense and make the population 72,453. That would be more reasonable possibly? plus it would leave some room for farming instead of housing.--Smoggy80 11:03, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
I'd have to argue lower than 70,000. Even today, that area is pretty forested, has plenty of mountains (Leavenworth proper is, after all, located up in the mountains) and just doesn't have that high of a population. Wenatchee itself has a population less than 30,000.
According to US Census information, the population of Chelan County in 1980 was about 42,000. After an event such as Doomsday, there was bound to be some starvation and dropoff in populace (since a lot of people in Chelan and Leavenworth are weekenders/people who own second homes/hospitality workers).
Wenatchee, by far the most important population center in the region, would have probably been where most people flocked. Leavenworth has a population of approx. 2,000 people in OTL present day, and it's economy is almost 100% tourist driven. It's located between two mountains, so it is not a particularly good spot for agriculture.
Could a small (small being the key word) survivor community exist here? Possibly, but it would not be a major regional power to the extent of Pasco or, even more so, Victoria. Especially if Wenatchee is an outpost for PFS planes and patrols.
KingSweden 17:38, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
- I changed the population and area to TBD (to be decided).
- I know you are from Washington, King, but from the looks of it (using Google Earth) the area should actually be very good for agriculture. It is, as you say, BETWEEN two mountains, but it is also between two rivers. It appears to be a protected valley at around 1100 feet. That is the altitude of Greenville, SC, and it looks to be just about as green. The area is known for fruit trees (especially apples) but with mostly moderate temperatutes during the growing season other crops. A tour of fruit stands shows two fruit stands just south of town, one for a family farm that is today over 100 years old.
- If we go with a populaton of perhaps 4,000 for a small republic that takes in much of the valley (down to Cashmere), populated by peaceful isolationists for the most part, I think it can work. The question of what happened in Wenatchee will have to be worked out, for sure, given that it is occupied by neighboring Pasco. Istoria has indicated that we can do just about anything with it as long as we don't "screw it up" (whatever that means). SouthWriter 20:09, June 19, 2011 (UTC)