wow, looking forward to this!Wingman1 04:47, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Hey Wingman, do you have kin in Georgia, too? SouthWriter 14:25, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
no, but i used to live and work in ludowici ga, when i traviled with a carnival, siting up rides and stuff. our winter quarters was there.Wingman1 15:43, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
here is a page about a failed city state from the state of Georgia.
Thanks, Wingman. I looked it up -- Brian had fixed it before I got to the note below, so I was able to finish the page this afternoon - at least the preliminary draft.
Ludowici is just up state 251 from Darien (also just upriver), a little closer to Ft.Stewart, but out of range of the low-yield (comparatively speaking), 400 megaton nuke that took out the military base on Doomsday. Perhaps some of the locals stayed around instead of migrating to Darien or Brunswick with the other refugees. SouthWriter 19:57, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
i am not real sure where the carinival was at on doomsday, but from what i know in TTL, i am sure they were not in town, most likely in the
CSRA of South Carliona. i am planing on taking a trip down there soon,mabe i can find out, and i am going to take some pic's.Wingman1 22:03, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Governors of the provisional state government based in Athens[]
The order should be: Fred Davison, Charles Hasty, Titus MacNeil. BrianD 16:35, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, Brian. I have just finished the preliminary article on the state of Georgia. I saved Jimmy Carter to set up headquarters in Smithville, Ga. Americus had been ransacked and abandoned, and Plains was an obvious place to which to flee. The secret service around the former president did not want to take chances that foreign agents would get to him at his hometown. Let me know what you think. SouthWriter 19:44, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
I just now read your intro, South. Excellent work! I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how things turn out, for Georgia and for Jimmy Carter. BrianD 20:34, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
hoping to find out Jimmy Carter is ok. i can see him in a peacemaker role if not leadership in the area.Wingman1 22:03, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Well, it would have made sense if he could have helped in the conflict between Selma and New Montgomery, but I don't know if that can be written into the flow of that ongoing story. The tragic failure of the government in Auburn, Alabama, comes to mind, but communications were probably still pretty bad in the area for him to be of much help there. I'd think that instead he was negotiating peace between largely African-American towns like nearby Dawson and thier neighbors, like largely white Leesburg. Once he had worked that miracle he could do a little "nation building" of his own. SouthWriter 22:14, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
i agree, i am looking forward to reading more soon.Wingman1 22:24, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the confidence in me. This will be the Neonotia that I mentioned (and has shown up on a map) in some notes some place. "Neonotia" is Greek for "New South," and is something that an intellectual like Carter might just come up with. As you see, I decided to go ahead and nuke the Marine base outside of Albany. It would have been a 400 kt (.4 mt) blast, taking out the base and half of downtown, but that's about all. My parents could have escaped -- maybe even into Leesburg or Smithville (both in Lee County).
I like the idea of Jimmy Carter coming to the rescue of his home state. Also, why does the info box reflect Georgia before the bombs fell? HAD 08:36, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
The Info box is designed to identify the area covered by the article. As a point of reference, the viewer can then tie TTL with OTL. I put the estimated population and governor in 1983 in the box to show what was lost. The text of the article will reveal that no state of Georgia actually exists in TTL in the present. For a synosis of what is presently known look at the chart at Doomsday by U.S. State. --SouthWriter 15:53, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
I had Georgia (Rome) considering itself to be a state government, unless you've decided to have Rome drop the Georgia designation. BrianD 01:51, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
I agree, Brian. I had Zell Miller escaping to Rome to establish that location as the legitimate provisional government. All others will be "pretenders." I think that's why I plan on making Carter's state cross over into Alabama. SouthWriter 15:25, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
Alabama....how close would that state's borders (and Carter) be to Selma and New Montgomery? BrianD 15:31, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
Pretty close. I have Carter negotiating with the radicals in Phoenix City but not following them over to Selma.
Location of Neonotia
Here is the map of the proposed state (I will make a page for it some time soon). I went ahead and made it full size to answer your question with a picure. As you can see, south Georgia is quite removed from the other states claiming governing rights to the former state. Rome and Taccoa, on the other hand, would no doubt clash at some point.
Also, I hope you don't mind my proposed expansion of Selma outside of Dallas County. Looking at it now, it looks like a lot more than they might have claimed. It's just the result of a map-making frenzy I went on a while back. I try to stay within county lines when building nation-states. New Montgomery, on the other hand, stays but a city-state. SouthWriter 16:19, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
Carter just wasn't in the area when the hostilities went down, but nothing prevents him from going in there now to help with reconciliation efforts. That would draw the attention of Hattiesburg, and in turn the LoN regional office, and in turn the LoN and the ANZC...and the formerly-provisional United States out west. Lots of potential scenarios from that. BrianD 21:04, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
I was referring the tumult in Auburn, but had not bothered to look up the event that began the mess in Alabama. I remembered Phoenix City (twin city to Columbus, Ga) which I knew was near Plains. I was thinking of attempts in Auburn to establish a state government there. I had remembered the Selma war being a bit later (I think I even created a timeline for the probable history of "New Montgomery" on the main talk page or somewhere). What I mentioned in passing would have been Carter's early attempts in Auburn (about the same time General Sumrall was there) to establish a provisional government in 1984. You are right, though, that is too early in Carter's history. He was still in Smithville and his first efforts at peace-making were in Dawson and Albany, both nearby cities with black majorities.
I like the idea of his reaching out to Selma, and by extension to New Montgomery, after he leaves office as the first governor (or 'president') of Neonotia. That would be in the mid-nineties, at least. What would work best in the Hattiesburg timeline? SouthWriter 14:09, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
Hattiesburg pretty much considered Selma and New Montgomery no-go zones, to be approached cautiously, because the belief was that while both sides were living in peace, tensions were still simmering under the surface and given the wrong set of circumstances could go hot at any time. In fact it was private citizens who finally did what their government was unwilling to do: take the chance, go to both cities, and try to bring about peace and draw the two cities into the 21st century. The toughest thing for me is writing Carter into the storyline in the '90s. You hadn't yet developed Neonotia to this point, and I was under the impression Carter was living in southeastern Georgia around that time.
Check out the New Montgomery page, especially the sections on 1990s and 2000s, for a better idea on what was going on in the region at that time. I had its scouts going as far east at Phenix City, Alabama; a quick check of the map shows Dothan - which is in Neonotia territory - is a little farther west than Phenix City. So the time when New Montgomery scouts were exploring the region would have been a great time to come into contact with Neonotia, and the former CSA state of Alabama.
The biggest thing for me is, by tying Neonotia to Hattiesburg and New Montgomery around that time, that word of the survival of a former U.S. President would surely have to be known by now, not ust to those in the area but to the LoN and to the officials of the former APA in the ANZC. And a big deal to your United States government out west. Now getting to him probably wouldn't be easy (my take is in most places the roads in the south reflect 27 years of neglect) but you'd have to guess some important people would like to meet with the former President. BrianD 15:05, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
For some reason, the rich text editor does not recognize spaces and indentions like I expect it to, so I added a bullet! Anyway, a quick note (it's lunch time and errands to run). I like what you added to the New Montgomery page. I added labeling to show where Phenix City is in relation to Plains and Smithville (see updated map above).SouthWriter 16:39, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
great reading here, love this. keep up the good work.Wingman1 06:05, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for your support.SouthWriter 15:19, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
Fort Stewart[]
Was Fort Stewart hit? Its not far from Darien GA & the troops there could help restore order to the area. Also the great General David Petraeus was there at the time. --GOPZACK 18:36, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
It would have to have been hit. It is next to Savannah, and also hosted an AAF base. Having that base survive means you have to have Savannah survive, and both would change the dynamics of the region completely. BrianD 19:15, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
Yep. It's mentioned in the WCRB report on the South East. SouthWriter 01:21, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
Thinking about Macon.[]
As far as I can tell, the strike that took out Macon was actually targeted for Robins AFB, which is about 15 miles south of Macon proper. Depending on the size of the strike, Macon could be entirely wiped off the map, or just damaged beyond habitation (even destroying 25-30% of the houses in the initial strike, there'd still be the resultant fires, gas leaks, etc). I'm mostly wondering because I'm thinking about the towns between Atlanta and Macon (Locust Grove, Jackson, Forsyth, Barnesville, etc.) that would be overrun from the south by refugees from Macon and overrun from the north by refugees from Atlanta. There isn't much chance of any sizable survivor populations in that area (although I could definitely see survivors living in the Georgia Diagnostic Prison outside Jackson, possibly former guards, former inmates, or just refugees who find the place after the guards and inmates fled/escaped/wiped each other out... It does beg the question of what was done with prison inmates after DD - work details? release? emergency execution? leave 'em to starve?) -hx 20:47, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
Good questions. Nothing has been written about the "no-man's land" between Macon and Atlanta. Perhaps the Jackson prisoners, not being maximum security, would be released. Many of them might end up in Athens - a town that was torn apart from the "inside out." Executions would be out of the question, I'd think, even in a maximum security facility. However, that leads to a question about those prisoners in maximum security prisons like those near where I happen to live. Thanks a lot! :-) SouthWriter 22:05, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
The state pen in Jackson is Death Row. That's pretty much the worst of the worst. The other pen down in Reidsville has some bad characters too - I was trying to figure out where Wayne Williams would be on DD, just because. Even if the order wasn't "officially" handed down, I could see guards, thinking it's the end of the world, deciding to "take care" of the death row inmates. Or a riot that turns into a break. Could go either way. Regardless, I could see whoever gets loose mixing with the refugees from Atlanta and Macon. Some end up in Athens, some end up forming gangs of raiders, etc. and making trouble... -hx 01:33, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
My mistake, the name "Dianostic Prison" threw me and I didn't check it out any further. That sounds like a state hospital or something. Or maybe a halfway house type of place where the authorities are trying figure out where to put the inmates. Now, Death Row is a whole other thing. The prisoners there would be "scheduled" to die pending appeal. With the courts gone, in home "courts" would certainly be a real possibility. The very real possiblity of a break or two adds more sense to the situation in Athens. That being said, I will now have to make sure that things stay in order at that prison in my neck of the woods. SouthWriter 13:22, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
Yeah - death row inmates were at that prison since '80, but the first actual execution was in '84 sometime. It definitely adds an extra level of chaos to the proceedings (and let's face it, if anyone is going to end up becoming a crazy warlord type, it's probably someone who was a terrifying hardcase in OTL. Out of morbid curiosity, I found out that Brian Nichols (the guy who shot up the atlanta courthouse a while back) was living in Baltimore in 1982, so he's probably dead in this TL (or he's a warlord up there...) -hx 14:45, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
I'd say check out who was at the Georgia prisons at the time of DD. We might be able to inject some realism to the horror which is "Toccoa" up in NW Georgia. Of course, to be a part of that group, the criminals will have to be white. I suppose any black criminals might end up contributing to the violence in "Anderson" of TTL. SouthWriter 15:55, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
Wouldn't be surprising. Then again, making your way from Jackson to north GA, the logical route takes you right thru what's left of Atlanta, which would be... not the wisest choice. The prevailing winds on DD seem to be easterly, which means the Atlanta fallout would go out towards Conyers. Pretty much anything between the blast zone proper and Stone Mountain would likely be a radioactive deathtrap.
I could see some of the inmates setting up shop in what's left of the southern metro counties - Clayton, Henry, etc. and preying on refugees, at least at first. We've got a 25 year window to play with here. Some (perhaps those who "found religion"?) stay behind in the prison. They don't feel they've done their penance or whatever. They live by farming on the prison grounds and very carefully rationing the kitchen and the commissary. At first they trade with refugees, but as that stream dries up, they move to a sort of "ethical raiding," scavenging from abandoned stores and homes, but only taking enough to feed themselves. Those guys actually manage to stick it out as a basically a monastery - they memorize the prison library, they pray, they farm. The rest? I figure most of the escaped inmates are dead within five years from fallout, starvation, disease, or violence. -hx 20:30, April 29, 2011 (UTC)
