Talk:Europe (Cabotia and Brasil)

From Alternative History

Well:

Here is a proposal of history in Europe that will affect the current stated facts:

• The Republic of Two Peoples (the Commonwealth) survives. Two issues: Commonwealth's Duchy of Prussia and Brandemburg never unite. Lack of catholic-protestant split allow better ties between Sweden and Poland, which are played against Russia. In the alt Great Northern War, Russia is defeated unto a rump state.
• Actually there might not be any Russia. Not sure if a POD in 1492 is enough to prevent Muskovy absortion of all the Rus peoples. Any how, Russia does not expand far beyond the Urals.
• Not sure if Brandenburg, without Prussia, would still grow up as an agglutinating power in the Germanic realm. The Hapsburg realm would be the dominant realm in the Germanic realm, until they had to split between their Germanic interests and the non-germanic interests (magyars, slavs, probably turks and tartars...).
• With the Russians expanding eastwards, northern Asia might have quite a different story... Either the Tartars, the Mongols, the Chinese or some other European power might colonize it, or just a combination of these peoples, plus Cossacks and Slaves not expanding as subject of Muskovy/Russia.
• anything can still happen in the Balkans...

-- Carlos Th (talk) 17:28, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Further changes...

Well... I am not yet convinced that after all changes ~60 years from POD, will be pretty much unchanged for the next 450 years.

My proposal is as following:

1. I am pretty much happy with the proposal of Scotland and Netherlands, and will remind unchanged on the basic premises.
2. Also for the Catholic Lutherism, and the Chauvinist (Calvinist) schism. France is in the road to become Chauvinist, which is a new proposal.
3. Without American gold, Austria is weaker. Charles V will be remembered as a great European leader, but rather for his consolidation of the Crown of Aragon than for the Austrian defense against Suleiman. Austria is in no position to demand Hungary to defend Christian Europe from the Ottomans, so Hungary pacts with the Turks after the defeat of Belgrade (1521). Hungary is not partitioned between the Austrian and the Ottoman empires but rather becomes a Christian nation under Ottoman sphere.
4. No fighting in Hungary, allows the Ottomans to give a better support to the eastern Europe khanates. This aborts Muscovian/Russian expansion eastwards.
5. The Teutonic Order becomes reformed, but as reform is accepted by Rome, the Order keeps its privileges inside the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. This prevents the eventual union between Prussia and Brandenburg.
6. Sweden still secedes from the Kalmar Union.
7. Down the road, a weaker Russia would be pray to the surrounding powers (either at once or one by one): Lithuania, Sweden, Ottoman Crimea, or the other khanates.
8. With a weaker Russia, a weaker Austria, and a weaker Prussia-Brandenburg, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth might indeed last longer, but I am not sure if it would last to the 21st century. There were also internal problems.
9. Also, a Turkish country that has lost Bulgaria and Serbia, but keeps Greece and Egypt seems implausible.
10. So, probably in late 19th century or early-to-mid 20th century, the Commonwealth disolves, and the Ottoman Empire became weaker loosing more territory.
11. We cannot discard peoples like Napoleon or Hitler who either succeeding manage to change the map radically, or so happens after their defeat.
12. At some point, Austria concentrates on Venice and northern Italy (as OTL). Genoa and Switzerland unite (either by conquest of by dynastic union), and eventually Austria, Bavaria and Switzerland-Genoa end up in a single political entity. This process might be quite violent.
13. I think that the remaining German kingdoms would eventually become united. Someone else than Brandenburg might be the agglutinating force.
14. I am not sure about the evolution of France. Alsace and Lorain might have never been French.

-- Carlos Th (talk) 03:42, 11 August 2007 (UTC)