Talk:Engine of Progress

From Alternative History

Em... this is Sci-fi y'all, especially if its POD is in 2010. Buk5 10:00, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't say so - it's an alternate history influenced by events in the near future. --Fegaxeyl 11:38, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The POD is 1938, only its origin is in the future.--TEAKAY 13:58, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

GIVES Canada to the Americans? ...I don't know what to say :S

...But SURELY Hitler and much of the elite would have been hanged, or given life-imprisonment, or very long sentences, but all of them just exiled to Greenland? :'( They still had crimes against humanity charges, seven months less of it but... but... they dang let the founder of nazism to go vacation in Greenland for the rest of his life to write a few more books which may or may not inspire neonazis to use his continuing life to rally resistance to Allied occuation forces! I don't think that hanging Hitler would produce too heavy a martyr reaction.

Also, with the Soviets gimped, couldn't that drastically counter the space race's assets in Theo, Rob, and Tim? Usually a competing nation is needed for such priorities, maybe China working on a space programme at the same time? --TEAKAY 13:58, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, this guys just brought their knowledge on better physics and biology. They did not brought uptime international law. The concept of "war crime" was invented in 1946 for judging the nazi leaders. If the war was solved more quickly and the nazis were not allowed to commit all their crimes, so probably the winners would not be so harsh against them.

-- Carlos Th (talk) 18:01, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Building a rocket is a matter of both science (who it works) and engineering (how to built it so it works). ISOTing scientists will not improve engineering. ISOTing engineers will not improve engineering, and even ISOTing scientists will not improve science unless those peoples gain respectability by the scientific community.

But... if the idea is to make WWII better. Why did this people permitted Germany to invade Poland first? Or to Japan attack Pearl Harbor. How about Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium and France? Well, we can claim that they are not experts in history, and they decided not to mess with the European theater just because they understood that an attempt to change things without knowing all consequences might worsen the situation. But at least they should know about Pearl Harbor, and a few ideas on how to prevent it while still justifiying US declaration of war against Japan: better communications, better radar, better radar procedures.

Of course, butterflies might mean Japan not attacking the USA.

-- Carlos Th (talk) 17:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

P.D. And why waiting till 1944 for D-Day?

Ok, first off, they couldn't stop WWII in 1939. They just got to the past and had next to no pull in the scientific, let alone the geopolitical community, so how would they convince anyone what to do without sounding bug freakin' nuts? Secondly, they thought that by advancing the US technologically for the war, they would have a bigger impact than simply running up to the white house lawn, and shouting, "Hey the Japanese are gonna bomb us on December 7th, 1941. Watch Out!" Finally, I'm gonna add a Space race feature to this in context to the Chinese. --YNot1989 20:43, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I can understand that, while it would still be possible to stop the war: 1) chances are between slim and none, 2) there is no warrant that preventing that war would make the world better if the nazi's are still in power in Germany.

Preventing Pearl Harbor is another matter. Since they arrived till PH, there had been over three years, and the Americans had already witnessed the Battle of Britain and the Blitz. One of the key elements that gave the British a clear victory was the use of radar and coordinated communications: So improving radar, improving communications (v.g. comm satellites), improving procedures was something these guys could do, and that could have give the USA a prompter warning on Japanese intentions. Japan would still attack PH by surprise, but the US would have be warned a little earlier, allowing troops to be better prepared to the attack and probably saving US lives, and inflicting some more damage on the Japanese Imperial Navy. You still have the casus belli.

There is a bigger hole in your story. (And if you prevent it, you had much probably prevented PH as well) When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, the Third Reich had already attacked the Soviet Union and were at the gates of Leningrad, Moscow, and Stalingrad, causing Stalin to declare the Great Patriotic War (this was no longer a battle between Fascism and Communism, but a battle of survival of the Russian people), and there is no way the Stalin or any other Soviet leader would trust the nazis any more after such stack in the back.

Now. If you can put a satellite in 1939, you can sure put a bomb in Berlin in December 1941 (or in Tokyo), even if you had not develop atomic bombs yet, you can still put air-combustion and low-pressure bombs. The technology for a satellite launching rocket and a ICBM is just the same. So... why waiting till 1944 for D-Day.

—Carlos Th (talk) 16:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Fine, I'll change pearl, increase the damage to germany, but I'm keeping the Nazi-Soviet Alliance, I'll elaborate on the premise of it, because they Nazis do not attack the soviets in this timeline for fear of the US having any further advantage in what would have then appeared as a potential war.--YNot1989 05:54, 7 October 2008 (UTC) Happy now?

Well, althogh it is not me who you should please, if the Nazis do not attack the SU for fear of the US, why would they then decalre war to the US? One of the main reason Hitler declared war to the USA OTL was in the hope of Japan engaging in an eastern Russian front. (An then, if Germany has been cautious enough not to invade the Soviet Union (part of Hitler's Lebenraum), then why isn't Japan that clever?)

—Carlos Th (talk) 14:57, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Canada

since the Statute of westminster (1931), Canada ceased to be a colony and was not Britain to give or sell away. --Marcpasquin 14:01, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Soviet Ally

why would stalin ally with hitler when it was obvious he was done for , and against an obviously very powerful america , its much more likely hed turn on the nazis

[edit] OK!!!!

Alright, after reviewing the sea of complaints regarding this timeline, I have decided to rewrite certain areas of it. There are some things that I will not change however, but will extrapolate on in expanded articles. Those will include: The war will still last until 1945 due to the Soviet invasion of the Americas, and their aide towards the Nazis; Secondly the the US shall receive Most of Canada under voluntary cession by popular referendum, Pearl Harbor will happen, but the Pacific fleet will only be damaged half as bad, because just knowing about the attack won't do much to stop the fact that the Japanese were still going to attack with an enormous force which the US Pacific fleet would have to engage; Finally the Chinese/US space race will receive its own article.

can i do a second version

[edit] Rewrite

I know its been some time since I've done anything to this article, but I think I want to seriously re-write it. First off, I've been reviewing my foreign policy history of the era and I think I can make a more interesting timeline by including some of the twists of the Yalta conference. Secondly, I am still going to expand the United States, but this time over its Pacific and Caribbean territories. Finally, I am going to keep the Soviet Union in power, but the iron curtain will not be drawn, and the Cold War will be more of a chilly war. This will be accomplished by having the kids show up in 1942, instead of the 30s. This way, the students have to contribute more to the Manhattan project, allowing Roosevelt to have the bomb as a policy weapon by the Yalta conference, and therefore won't have to sell out Eastern Europe to the Soviets just to get them to declare war on Japan at the last minute to prepare for what Roosevelt thought would be a massive invasion to end the war.--YNot1989 16:38, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Opinions

I won't post this to be expanded just yet. Please give suggestions.