Talk: Chumash Republic (1983: Doomsday)

Military size

So this nation has a population of 65000 but a military of 10000. Thus 1 out of every 6 people in this nation is in the military? Very implausible. I can't think of any nation on the Earth now with such a ratio. Mitro 04:29, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

This article is brand new and not yet finished so not everything is finalized, if you find the military to implausible change if you want, I'm not really trying to focus on the military anyway. User:Riley.Konner 06:20, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

Mat I am not getting at you but instead of saying the nations military is inplausable you could other advice on how the article should develop--Owen1983 05:02, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

First off Owen, the name is Mitro, don't call me "Mat". Second off, don't lecture about how I should edit, your the last one who should do that. Mitro 13:44, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

If you look closely, the navy also has the same amount. So 1/3 of the population is in the military. I propose that the Chumash lucked out and ended up with a single frigate for its navy. A nation with the population of a small city wouldn't have 5 warships.--Oerwinde 06:45, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

Military has been rewritten to be made more plausible, if you disagree anyone is more than welcome make it more plausible. Riley.Konner 06:45, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

I gave it a bit of flair, you can revert it if you don't like it, or change whatever you feel like. Its your article.--Oerwinde 07:15, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

I really like what you added thank you. Riley.Konner 07:25, Novemeber 28, 2009 (UTC)

I like the Central Coast article better, but it seems I am the only one. I will not speak on how I like it, or by how much, because it seems that any article I do gets picked apart shortly after. --Yankovic270 09:57, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

I am still unsure as to the plausibility of Vandenburg not being nuked. In any event, it is likely the Soviets would have sent multiple ICBMs, and possibly even one carried by a strategic bomber. It could shoot one out of the sky, but certainly not two. Lahbas 23:04, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree with Lahbas, Vandenburg would be destroyed. It is to important of a military base not to be destroyed. Mitro 23:11, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

Vandenburg was destroyed If you read it says a nuclear missile was sent to directly hit Vandenburg but a defense system destroyed the nuke 100 miles offshore, but an EMP fried all the equipment and the base was more than likely destroyed in a riot, now it just sits there abandoned and pretty much damaged beyond repair. User:Riley.Konner 15:59, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

I think what Lahbas and I are trying to say is that it would be destroyed by a nuclear weapon, not by an EMP and a riot. Mitro 00:15, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Lahbas and Mitro. Remember that in any first strike scenario the Soviets would want to eliminate America's military infrastructure. Vandenburg is too important of a base not to be nuked.--BrianD 00:42, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Well... I guess I can find some way to work it in, but by all the logic presented wouldn't that mean that every current survivor state in America have there bases struck? I don't mean to insult anyone but... you gotta think that nations (although I think the article is incredibly written) like the North American Union would have bases like NORAD or Cheyenne Mountain destroyed. Riley.Konner 07:43, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Ok I have rewritten (or at least attempted to) the article concerning Vandenburg. Riley.Konner 08:31. November 29, 2009 (UTC)

The last time I checked, NORAD's HQ is Cheyanne Mountain. And I seriously doubt it would be destroyed. That facility was (or is) one of the most fortified bunkers in the entire United States. It could be directly impacted by an atomic weapon and survive. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is going to take the facility out.

the soviet union had ICBM's and SLBM with high yeild (25MT) targteted on the mountain. even if the mountain survived, the detonations would probablyy melt the gate, and sent a thermal pulse plus blast shockwave racing through the tunnels, eviserating the mountain. --HAD 11:02, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

If the damage from said shockwave is light enough, I could see the melted gate serving to turn the complex into a gigantic time capsule. If people have the time to do so they could probabbly reuse it relatively quickly, as I think most of the resoration time would be used to clear the gate. Naturally, if the facility is reclaimed it would fall under NAU control. Yankovic270 17:12, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Central Coast: future revival?

The idea of the central coast could possibly be revived as an organization similar to the MSP. Maybe there are plans to put it together in the next 10 years or so. Benkarnell 12:50, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

It seems possible although I doubt it would be as organized as the MSP. Riley.Konner 06:33, November 29, 1009 (UTC)

Wine

I don't think 98% of the worlds vinyards were destroyed. Wine is produced all around the world. Most of the wine producing areas of BC survived, as well as the Champagne region of France. Most of the southern hemisphere survived, and I'm pretty sure most south american nations produce wine to some degree.--Oerwinde 08:12, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

I changed it 67% but not a lot of people buy South American wines. South American wines rarely leave the continent, as for champagne, thats entirely different from wine.

Champagne is sparkling wine from the Champagne region of france. The region is famous for its sparkling wine, and that may be the dominant product, but thats not the sole product. And with most of the northern hemisphere in ruins, South American wine would become a lot more widespread. And while Burgundy currently holds most of the Champagne region, Burgundy itself is a major wine producing region.--Oerwinde 19:31, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

South America has been and most likely still is isolated with wine exports, the best wine you can buy in South America that you can find in the U.S. is mediocre at best, to get good South American you actually have to go to the continent. As for champagne or sparkling white wine, you need distilleries which actually cost quite a bit of money to build. Riley.Konner 20:05, December 1, 2009

South America in this TL however is part of the First World. They are going through one of the most prosperous economic times they have ever experienced and the SAC is probably the world's largest economies. I have to agree with Oer, South American wine is going to be a lot more popular and widespread then OTL. Furthermore lets not forget that the Chumash Republic is in a state that would be heavily hit by nuclear weapons, what would fallout do to wine production? My guess is that its going to be some time before Cali wine is popular again. Mitro 16:08, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

Hmm you are right South America would probably export a lot more, but the things in that region is sheer luck that they where able to find a few farms that can still grow grapes. Riley.Konner 16:18, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

Economy

I have edited the articles economy for something more "original" you might say. Riley.Konner 10:45, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

With the instability of the area with raiders and slavers, I doubt the country would be a major destination for tourism. Also with Gambling comes increased crime, which would put a strain on the already fragile stability.--Oerwinde 19:47, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree with Oer, I doubt many people would be booking vacation trips to a third world nation on a continent devestated by nuclear war. Like wine production, Oceania and South America are going to be the hot spots. Mitro 20:04, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

Alright I'll change back to the old explanation. Riley.Konner 06:32, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

But you have to admit the fact that no one else thought of that was pretty interesting, it would be good to add for a place like Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Riley.Konner 29:06 December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Final word

on the militery question a lot of states require conscription the pre DD term which was used in the UK was National sevice so i think on that side its plausable the Navy is realistic over --Owen1983 23:15, December 3, 2009 (UTC)all its good

Why Final word? Is my article going to be accepted? Riley.Konner 01:07, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

I think we should accept this article. Anyone else agree with me? --Yankovic270 21:42, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

its a great article that should become canon --Owen1983 05:06, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

good news Riley I spoke to ben about this article and it is now cannon --Owen1983 16:50, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Sweet thanks man, and to all who helped contribute. Riley.Konner 13:01, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

So... do I just add it to canon my self or wait for some one to do it for me? User:Riley.Konner 08:52, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Contact

Why is contact so late? With Mexico being so close and with Chumash being located on the Pacific coast (probably the most traveled ocean in this TL) it is likely that they would have been contacted early, maybe even by the Franklin. Mitro 21:21, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

I have added Chumash as a member of the LoN. Even if we assume that contact happened as late as 2006 (which is unlikely since the Franklin was in the area on its global voyage), the LoN wasn't started until 2008, which makes it likely that Chumash was a founding member. Mitro 17:17, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Refugees

Generally in history refugees have a lot of trouble gaining access to countries. For example the United States refused to allow Jews fleeing the Holocaust access to their country. Now in this ATL the Chumash have just accepted 20k refugees with little to no opposition. For a nation of only 60k before the refugees, this seems like a significant resource drain as they have to find a way to feed and shelter all of these people. Just seems very optimistic in my opinion. Mitro 20:58, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Place Name

Guys, it's Santa Barbara, not Barbra. :D

Good point, I made the corrections. Mitro 05:14, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Assumptions of Nukes

Guys, when reading this article, I had flashbacks to when I was developing the idea of the Piedmont Republic. I had gone on the assumption

that the world map of "ICBM Targeted areas" (see map to the right) was more or less accurate. I then used the report on the Southeast to establish which cities had indeed been hit. Links to another site, which assumed nuke strikes to non-military sites like nuclear power plants, was disregarded in favor of "conventional weapons" taking out those sites.

The point is, I find it strange that the Chumash Republic could have survived based on the earliest map. I haven't seen a "report on the West Coast" that would give specifics as to what was nuked there. Apparently, since Chumash is now canon, southern California wasn't as badly hit as the map indicates.SouthWriter 17:35, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

We have a procedure in case you feel an article should not be canon. Just mark the article as a proposal and explain why on the talk page. We used this before on Prussia (which was brought back into canon after a few changes) and other articles (most which are no longer a part of canon. Mitro 18:17, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Population change

So what is the reasoning for this huge population change? I see there has been some discussion on the main page, I will leave my two cents there. Mitro 22:14, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Chumash government

Why would the Chumash adopt a communist government? Especially when it was communists who nuked their home in the first place. Why wouldn't they just adopt an updated version of their tribal council?

I'm thinking Riley is just trying to define this government in terms of ideology. The tribal council is by nature a communal organization. The Native American philosophy is more communal than representative. A "pure communism" is approximately the same thing as a "pure democracy" except that the people own everything instead of having a "say" in everything. If one is an equal "stockholder," then his word is as good as any other, IF he votes. The problem is, pure democracies and pure communes tend to be unmanageble as the population reaches a certain point. SouthWriter 16:45, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Mainly Im changing the government because the old one didn't make much sense, Britain and American ideals combined doesn't sound right, because the American is mainly made up of old British ideology. Plus you would expect people trying to overthrow a fascist dictatorship like the one the country used to have would probably try to liberate themselves from as much fascism as possible. Plus there is also Santa Cruz a fascist country, another reason they hate each other is because of the ongoing dispute between communism and fascism.

The country isn't pure communist like mentioned, its a lot like Finland which is called a "Social Democracy". Riley.Konner] 08:56, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Relations with the USA

Chuamash, in having relations with the two full nations of Native Americans in the North American Union would probably have relations with the US states of Absaroka and Kootenai, both created as NatAm run states in the mid nineties. As far as the US has allowed them self rule, they are as free as the "full nations." Interestingly, these two states have been categorized with the Native American tag (something I should have done when I created the pages).

I don't know about how the US government will feel about a foreign nation with "special" relations with two of its states, but it is good to note that the present president is a NatAm himself. I figure, then, that relations between the socialist nation on the coast and the capitalist nation in the plains can't be all bad. SouthWriter 23:27, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

L. Ron Hubbard/Scientology

Don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology, was living in Creston, CA in 1983. That's within the boundaries of the Chumash Republic, and far enough from San Luis Obispo that he probably survived. I don't know how the people writing this thread want to handle it, if they want to handle it at all (by this point Hubbard was in poor health and OTL he died three years later). Might be something to consider, though - a Scientologist compound, perhaps? -hx 19:55, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

Nope. In the chaos of the region, which is much more than the one strike, he'd have been dead. Even if not, the Chumash wouldn;t have let it happen. Lordganon 09:00, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

I'd probably argue that he survived at least short-term (for instance, it's a known thing that the ranch he was staying at had a bunker - today it's full of archived Scientology documents) but yeah, his long term survival is pretty low. I wouldn't put it past whatever of the Church survived past Doomsday to mount a "rescue", though. CoS has properties all over California, probably exactly for that kind of situation... -hx 13:32, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

Unlikely that he'd live, honestly - a bunker is only good against the blast, not against all of the rioting, etc. citizens, who would have known about the bunker too. Given the chaos in general, and the various regimes coming to power across the state, no attempt would be possible, either, especially given how much of their real power is concentrated in major urban areas. I doubt they had the number of properties you seem to think there is, either, especially back in the 1980s. More than anything, most of the people of the Scientology cult would have been killed off, anyways. Lordganon 13:50, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

Status of Santa Barbara Municipal Airport

Since the Santa Barbara Municipal Airport was not targeted by the ICBM for Vandenberg AFB, was it destroyed by the civil war and if so, was it rebuilt afterwards?

142.30.225.226 23:52, September 6, 2012 (UTC)mikelima

...That location is not even remotely near Vandenberg - it is at least 50 miles between the two locations.

Assume some damage in the civil war, but even more from the continental EMP destroying all of the electronics in some way.

It would be operational today, no doubt.

Lordganon (talk) 01:01, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

I think There should be a review

I don't think the part about Chumash being the ofifcal langue is pluasble. Chumash was a dead langue in 1983. The last native speaker of the langue died in 1965.

I don't the closeness between chumash and Vasilia is plauble because one is left leaning republic and the other is a haspincic dominted abosutle monchary. The fact that chucmash over throw thier own abosuble monarchy makes it seam that won't turst vissalia much. Also was the king of Chushmash Martin Valen a real person. I got nothing when I googled Martin Valen and santa barabra. IF he is ficinaln he may need to butterfiled. It may be for the best to undone the part about the chusmahs cival and have it be a republic form the start

I