If a fleet was sailing to Taiwan, they would not have the supplies to get to North America. Lordganon (talk) 05:11, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
I suppose you may be right. However, I was assuming that they may have been carrying supplies other than the ones they would actually need for some reason. Maybe export or something. Also, the ships in question were not the same as our timelines ships. You could imagine them as being capable of carrying larger amounts of supplies they don't need. I did get the idea of them being blown off course from Asterix and The Great Crossing which in hindsight may not have been the best inspiration and the story of Zheng He. You have raised a good point though and I'll find a way to solve the problem. Green47 (talk) 13:30, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
Can't assume something like that. And the difference in numbers you'd need would be very large.
If they aren't the same as otl Chinese ships in many ways, then you need to change that. Plato succeeding sure as heck won't make many changes there. The Far East has different requirements for ships than Europe, after all.
Larger is really not relevant. Fleet is only sailing to Taiwan from China. Short distance, and full of things besides supplies, presumably. Soldiers, etc. China had large ships at that time otl - not relevant at all.
All that ignores, of course, that it would be more or less impossible to go off course from Taiwan and end up across the Pacific.
Using a comic book for inspiration, not at all a good idea.
And, Zheng He? There is no "story" there. The man sailed throughout Asia, as far as East Africa. The concept of him having went to North America, in any form, is fiction of the worst kind. The comic book is a better source than that.
And, quite frankly, it is unlikely that his ships could have made the journey anyway.
Lordganon (talk) 11:48, July 14, 2014 (UTC)
Actually, I'll admit it. You're completely right. I'll make changes to make it more believable immediately. Oh and Plato success is not the reason for the technological change, what's different is the fact technical progress wasn't halted by Rome. See my user page for the source I used for this. Zheng He, I know his voyage to America is only a theory or legend made up, that's why I called it a story. Thanks for the constructive criticism. Green47 (talk) 14:11, July 14, 2014 (UTC)
Terry Jones' "work" isn't a source, imo. Good rule of thumb for history: if it is a "popular" work, you can generally discount all of its content.
Let's put it this way: that is the first "source" I have seen making that argument. Little to no truth to it.
In fact, history indicates that the opposite is more likely. Europe and Western Asia, where there were many different nation-states, advanced faster with regards to technology than the Chinese in the east. Competition breeds advancement, when it comes to technology. There are many other examples.
Also, the period after the fall of the Roman Empire otl - known as the "Dark Ages" - was anything but. In fact, there was in many ways more advancement than had been the case prior to that timeframe.
While it is not impossible for it to go faster with a surviving empire in the west, it is unlikely. Rome, imo, didn't "halt" anything.
Even calling that thing a story is giving it too much legitimacy. It is, quite frankly, a mental delusion on the part of Gavin Menzies, and that is it.
Lordganon (talk) 01:43, July 17, 2014 (UTC)
Well I do consider Terry Jones' work a source. I had encountered many of the subjects he brought up before. He and Alan Ereira have simply put a new revisionist interpretation of events. I know what the Dark Ages are, but this timeline isn't about Rome. Certainly it has been brought up by authors like Kjartan Poskitt (true, he's a mathematician not a historian, but he's a source on the history of maths) that after the Romans took over advanced maths slowly went out of fashion, with the final blow being struck by Christian fanatics influenced by a Roman take on Christianity I'm not prepared to discount anybodys work just yet popular or not.. The full explaination of technology is located at Kallipolic Confederation and a discussion about technology would better be suited on that articles talk page. Also another timeline on this wiki, Abrittus that has more advanced technology in the the traditionalist view of Rome, I'm having more advanced technology in one of many revisionist views of Rome.
I have looked over the Internet and found that there is at least 1 website that also believes the Romans deliberately dstroyed the potential of steam power in order to retain slavery http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/HeroAndLoon.htm (the external link system refuses to recognise the website though the site does exist). Green47 (talk) 13:56, July 17, 2014 (UTC)
Actually, it seems that the link does work after all, it just wasn't showing initially in the Visual Editor. Competition breeding advancement? Well I in my round of editing today I added that to other articles but it's mentioned here that the Chinese here stole other cultures technology frequently based on the need to keep up as well as doing much innovation. The Chinese here would presumably also steal the manufacturing methods, materials and possibly kidnap personnel as well. The same goes for other nations in the timeline. If they don't have a certain technology they will either make their own version to keep up or just steal it. Green47 (talk) 16:02, July 17, 2014 (UTC)
By revisionism I have an explaination on my user page just in case. As I said there, I'm not saying Rome was a total hinderance, just that technology could have done just as well without them, perhaps more so. This therefore shouldn't be the sort of revisionism that this wiki frowns upon, more the process given in the example in the explaination.
I have researched Menzies and my subconscious inspiration was little to nothing to do with him (though I object to accusing anybody of being deluded). The only book of his that was ever within my place of residence was 1434 and I did not read that. It was more the plot of Age of Empires III: The Asian Dynasties, where the Wikipedia article for it mentioned Zheng He briefly and also the character bibliography in Jeremy Han's The Emperors Prey although in that Zheng He never goes to America, neither is it mentioned. I had doubts about the plot of his book but I decided there may be a grain of credibility when I read about his authors note.
Upon re-reading my own article I found the following passage that had been in there right from the start: "Several new technologies were developed by both nations during the war, such as pistol crossbows, telescopic pikes, automated steam powered artillery and portable Archimedean burning glasses." I'm not entirely confiedent on the concept of burning glasses, but I had already covered competion breeding advancement in technology the moment I started this article.
I hope I have explained myself sufficiently. Green47 (talk) 06:30, July 21, 2014 (UTC)