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This is the archive for the solved issues of the Indian League.

Issues

The Free Travel of Merchants

It has come to the attention of the Bengali Sultan that trade restrictions still exist between member states of the Indian League. We unite to oust foreign invaders, yet we still act as though we ourselves are the enemy? In order to be militarily strong against our enemies, our economies must have the ability to support the combined might of India. That is why I am proposing that we remove the trade barriers between our nations and allow each of our nations merchants to travel across India to strengthen our economics, share ideas, and promote the unity of a common people. 

Member Decisions:

9/8 Motion passed by Slight Majority: The Wings of Freedom #FP Wings of freedom 2 (Talk to Me)

Siege Guns

During our war with the Mughal Empire, it has been noted that during our sieges of several walled cities that our simple and primitive cannons took far too long to break the walls that served a purpose to keep our brothers under Mughal rule. This is why we are proposing that several states send their best and their brightest to an undetermined location to develop a cannon with the power to destroy walls in a single shot, lest we decide that it is cheaper to allow the defenders time to prepare their defense against the might of India. 

Member Decisions:

Domestic belligerence and an upset to the balance of power

Recently, the Kingdom of Gwailor has declared war upon the a fellow League member, Merwar. The Kingdom's reasoning, is to unite the Hindus against some imaginative authority. Does it wish to unite the Hindus by killing them? The League has been created to protect against foreign aggression, but it is time we look towards domestic aggression. To allow the League to function, we must not war against each other, lest we leave ourselves open to the new threats such as those from the land of Europe. We are not petty kingdoms who fight for power and control, no, we are a united people who fight for our collective interests and we will not tolerate the belligerence of one kingdom against all its brothers. For these reasons, the Sultan of Bengal proposes that the League immediately condemn and threaten with force the Kingdom of Gwailor, in order to stop it, for attacking a fellow League member and killing the people of India, not unlike the Mughal threat that this League was originally created to stop. This proposal also proposes to from henceforth ban upon the threat of war all domestic war against our brothers, and to stop petty feuds from destroying the unity of the Indian peoples. 

Member Decisions:

  • Bengal: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)
  • Gondwana: Agree
  • Bastar: Agree
  • Vijaynagar: Agree
  • Khandesh: Agree
  • Malwa: Agree
  • Merwar: Agree
  • Gujarat: Agree
  • Dhundhar: Disagree
  •  Marwar: Agree
  • Gwailor: 
  • Dhundhra: Agree
  • Kathaiwar: Disagree
  • Venad: Agree
  • Bahamani: Agree
  • Jaunpur: Agree
  • Orissa: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)
  • Kamarumpa: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)
  • Andamana: We agree Eiplec - ಠ_ಠ (talk)

Result: 16 out of 19 states agree to intervene on behalf of Merwar and declare that if Gwalior does not cease their belligerence against their brothers, they will be forced to end their belligerence. Also, these 16 states and a majority of the League agrees to not war against once another to preserve the strength of India and unify against petty domestic disputes over power and land.

A Balance Of Power

The Indian League had been formed to protect India from any sort of foreign invasion.. The Treaty of Delhi had been signed so the various Indian states could protect their sovereignty and remain independent. But the war against the Timurids had itself resulted in places like Vijaynagar and Delhi left in a poor condition, Mewar (NOT MERWAR) near collapse and Bengal achieve a state of regional power. Bengal was able to subsequently spread its influence and vassalization numerous Indian states despite the Treaty of Delhi having guaranteed the independence of each and every Indian state. The gap between the richer and poorer states of India has become too much and an agreement must be signed in which the 19 states of India shall agree to share their resources for a low price as well as their weaponry so that the other states of India too reach an equal status. An Indian state which has developed gunpowder based weaponry ought to share it with the rest of the Indian States and Indian states with access to the sea must similarly cede a small territory of theirs to the landlocked states of India. We must act as a family and help each other to protect India's sovereignty. Those whites have already spotted a treasure chest called India and our unity is the lock that'll prevent any foreign from exploiting our resources

BTW, I got rid of the states that have no place in the map or never existed. Also, Kathiawar is part of Gujrat ... In the map they are united so make up your mind.


Listen bud, you don't know a thing about PM3 India do you? Bengal hasn't been keeping gunpowder a secret because all Indian states know about. Bengal hasn't been hiding the secrets of arquebus's (Nobody has muskets yet, keep that in mind) because the free travel of merchants and Bengal lowering trade taxes has made the arquebus technology and invention itself accessible by all of India. Vijaynagar is not in poor condition, it recovered, and if you read a single one of my turns, you would understand that I have been aiding Bahamani, Jaunpur and Delhi since the end of the war. Bengal hasn't vassalized a SINGLE Indian state since the end of the war. Orissa was before that and was from a long standing history of relations, and Garjat was from a royal marriage and inheriting the nation. This notion that all Indian states except for you and Bengal are poverty stricken is an absolute insult to the nations that haven't been subject to anything that would induce poverty. Finally, make up your mind. You say that Delhi has been annexed by the Mughals for so long, yet you specifically mentioned them in this argument. You also say that Kathiawar is part of Gujrat, yet this , and this prove they are not. I have no idea what map you are looking at, but you need to be looking at the PM3 map. Basically, you have a proposal on complete lies, and if anything the League should reprimand you for attempting to divide it along the lines of Muslim and Hindu rivalries.

1) I bought muskets 2) yeah sorry made some mistakes about the maps and I made that new map. Also, I saw the official PM3 India Map today so ... 3) when I was talking about Vijaynagar and all, I was not referring to present but rather the next few years following the Timurid invasion 4) I have not been inciting rivalry between Muslims and Hindus NO. That was old me. You know what? The proposal was not about Bengal at all. It was about sharing our resources like we are a single nation and sharing every bit of weaponry we gain access to.

OCC: If we could act like a single nation in the League, I'd have every single nation under Bengal, but there's literally no true unification of India until the 1800s. RPC or whatever: So, it's about sharing resources and every bit of weaponry we get asked to? Kind of like LETTING MERCHANTS TRAVEL FREELY TO EACH OTHERS NATIONS SO RESOURCES FLOW WITH EASE AS WELL AS TECHNOLOGY?

OK. How about we finally stop arguing? We're doing the opposite of what the Treaty of Delhi stated.

OOC: No offense, I understand this will surely pass, but Kathiawar should be disagree, since they, like Marwar have a chance of inheriting the throne, albeit less likely, still possible. SkyGreen24 17:58, May 1, 2014 (UTC)


Member Decisions:

  • Bengal: Disagree
  • Gondwana: 
  • Bastar: 
  • Vijaynagar: 
  • Khandesh: 
  • Malwa: 
  • Mewar: 
  • Gujarat: 
  • Dhundhar: 
  • Gwailor: Agree
  • Kathaiwar: 
  • Venad: 
  • Bahamani:
  • Jaunpur: 
  • Orissa: Disagree
  • Kamarumpa: Disagree
  • Andamana: Disagree
  • Marwar:

Result: ?

In The Common Interest of Sovereignty (Repealed)

Many years ago, we fought a great and glorious war against the Mughal invaders that threatened the whole of India. Not only did we prove that as one people, we are mighty, but we also proved that the only tolerable influence of Indian states were the Indian states themselves. With current diplomatic changes in the way some Indian nations formerly conducted themselves, it has become apparent, that while our enemy was militarily defeated, it diplomatically was not. As we speak, the Mughal Empire and the Raja of Gwalior have been conspiring to bring forth Mughal influence back into India. The same Raja that dreamed of uniting all of the Hindus, destroying the unity of the League, and exterminating all Muslims is now allied with their "brother" that is the Mughals. If Mughal influence can reach so far into the heart of a nation that once fought bravely for his Indian brothers, then what is to say of the former Mughal lands, or Indian states beside the Mughal border? We did not sacrifice our brothers, our fathers, and our children to push back a threat just to give it the chance to pry its fingers back into our political courts and diplomatically enslave us just as the Timurids did with our still imprisoned brothers. This why the Sultan of Bengal has proposed to following to the Indian League in order to preserve the sovereignty of smaller border states more susceptible to influence, and to end a threat as soon as it begins:

  • All Indian nations will halt their trade with the Mughal Empire. The Free Travel of Merchants proposal has ensured that all Indian nations will have access to the sea and each others nations. It should be noted that landlocked nations are able to send merchants to other Indian nations with ports and still reap the economic benefits.
  • All Indian nations will sever diplomatic ties with the Mughal Empire. Why must we ally with a nation we fought no more than 30 years ago in order to preserve ourselves, if we are to simply allow them back in as if they never slaughtered the people of Delhi, of Bahamani, of Venad, and of Vijayanagar?
  • All Indian nations will renounce any history of dealing with the Mughal Empire. We can not make a proposal for the present situation and ignore future implications. Any nation that has formerly allied with the Mughal Empire, formerly traded with them, formerly/currently married them royally, or formerly/currently has their throne in the Mughal Empire line of succession shall renounce these ties as never having existed.

Member Decisions:

Raja Vikram: Times have changed and the Mughals are no longer the same. To compare the current Mughal leader to the Timurids is as foolish as one could be. Each person has their own soul, mind, thought ... They do not pass their will onto the next person. This is not some sort of a spirit world, this is reality. If you consider the Timurids and Mughals virtually the same, than may I remind you that Timur destroyed India on the excuse of waging Jihad. Does that mean all Muslims are guilty of Timurids crime? Or does that mean the innocence of all the Muslims would be enough to forgive Timur as well? It means nothing. Timur was guilty but his successors are not. Yes, we fought against Mughals but if we continue to follow this policy of isolation, we will certainly fall. Good relations with the Mughals is what will benefit the Indian League. Also, I'll make it clear for you once and for all ... I never wanted to exterminate the Muslims. If you could even once even once get some evidence regarding me conspiring to exterminate the Muslims, I shall abdicate the throne

Sultan-i-Bharate-Naiki: To compare the vassalizing process of conquering India through diplomacy by the Mughals to the vassalizing process of conquering India through diplomacy is foolish? And yes, everyone has their own soul, mind, and thought, but can a person not be the same? I was taught by the Hindu scholars of Bengal on the beliefs of Hinduists such as yourself, and that one of the several reasons for reincarnation would be that a person, such as Draka (Or whoever it was), dies without accomplishing their sadhana (goal), conquering India, and are given a second chance to achieve their goals, entirely opening up the possibility that within the Hindu faith, the ruler of the Mughal Empire is nothing more than the reincarnated Draka, systematically reincarnating to achieve one singular sadhana. Also, in your own faith, this is a spirited world, as described by Adi Shankara, who described this world not as reality, but as fleeting and illusionary. To speak against your own religious ideals is one of heresy, and it is even worse to be corrected by one of a differing faith. May I also tell you that Timur waged his first war against India in Delhi. Timur was a Muslim, and Delhi was an Islamic state. His war was not of Jihad against his own faith, but one of greed and lust for power that grew stronger with each conquest, filling himself with the gold of India, for he certainly was no great instructor of Islam, seeking to force it upon all. Rather, he was the leader of Mongolians, a society built upon the conquest of others, not religious morality. This assumption that all Muslims are guilty of Timur's crimes is as foolish as one could be. In your own words, against your own faith, "Each person has their own soul, mind, thought ... They do not pass their will onto the next person." By this wrongly held onto belief, no Muslim could be guilty of Timurs crimes against other Muslims for his lust for riches and land. His successors are guilty of nothing, but their continued policy of stepping into Indian affairs where they have certainly made themselves not welcomed for over 100 years of war and subjugation make them guilty of the same delusions of granduer that Timur held. Finally, this policy is not of isolation. There is a world full of nations such as China, Ayuhutta, Tibet, Alexandria, Yemen, Dai Viet, and the Nēdāralyānḍa (Netherlands) who have not proven themselves prone to warring and subjugating India. This is not for isolation, this is for protection.

OOC: I am not a Hindu so I don't know much about that religion Raja Vikram: The Timurids destroyed India. They plundered our land and left Vijaynagar to rot. The Mughals however established diplomatic relationships with the Indian States, married Prince and Princesses from Kathiawar and Marwar whilst also trading with the Indians. As far as reincarnation is concerned, I believed men who have accomplished nothing else but brought pain to others are not reincarnated once again in the form of a rulers. They are reincarnated as poor weak orphans so they suffer the consequences of their evil actions. As far as Timur waging Jihad is concerned, as I said ... He invaded India on the excuse of waging Jihad. He plundered our mother land and committed a genocide against the Hindus. He did not care about the religion practised by the rulers of the Delhi Sultanate, what I am saying is that the people of your religion are used Jihad (Struggle in the way of Allah) to kill the Hindus. Yes, no one but Timur is responsible for his sins and that makes the Mughals completely innocent. The Mughals did not poke their nose into India, it was rather me who visited the Mughals for I wanted an end to hostilities. Who would want to have hostile relations with a nation as large as the Mughals towering over your union of kingdoms. While it is true that we have established good relations with various countries, why must we not do the same with the Mughals? Through the Mughal Empire is the shortest route to the Oirats, Principality of Novgorod, Moskovy, Persia, Oman, Ottoman Empire etc.. Why must we not end this pointless conflict? You mentioned Hinduism.. Now I shall mention Islam for I too had studied it. Islam has no mention if reincarnation thus making your statement of Timur reincarnation as false unless you have given up Islam. Your own Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] and the First 4 Caliphs forgave the Jews on numerous occasions despite the Jews having betrayed the Muslims on three different occasions. In fact, despite the hostility.. The Jews were the first to be informed that they could return to Jerusalem after it was conquered by the Rashidun Caliphate. This was how the Muslims treated the Jews, their enemies and look at yourself and your view if the Mughals. We can't even describe it as a Sunni - Shia rivalry for both you and the Mughals are Sunni. I am afraid, I can not break my relations with the Mughal for what I am doing is what is best for Indian League.

OOC: I know I'm not a member of the League or anything, but I have to say that you're putting much blame on the Mughal Empire, when most of the "atrocities" were committed by the Timurids. Although more or less the same, some points stand. Mirza is half-Indian. His mother comes from Marwar. The Mughals have during their existence not once initiated any kind of assault on any Indian nation, furthermore, they removed the heir of Jaunpur from the throne (remember that in OTL the Jaunpur Sultanate even attacked Bengal). Now as for Mirza being a "re-incarnation" of Draka, The Bengalis are Muslim, since when do they believe in re-incarnation. And let's carry on. Mirza has made Hindu the official language of the Mughal Empire. Through recent trade, he's bringing European technology to Gwalior, by means of Alexandria. I'm not mentioning the Timurid leaders, but as far as Mirza goes, he's done more for Indian culture than you'd expect. He's spreading the Hindu-speaking area up to Chagatai, he used metablock printing to further Hindu-written literature. Again, I'm no League member, but these points are important. Maybe it's overdoing it, but the Mughals have spread Indian-culture to places it has never been, nor ever will be without them. I rest my case

P.S. Let's not forget that over 30% of the Mughal Empire is of Indian ethnicity. Are you going to break all ties with your brethren just because they're not in "your" India? And let's not forget that nations such as Marwar and Kathiawar are surely going to disagree, because both can inherit the throne. (It's more complicated for Kathiawar, but still possible). And as far as I know, the only atrocities the Timurids actually committed were against the Vijaynagari, not Bahmani or Venad and definitely Jaunpur.

And Bengal is currently fighting against rebels. Sovereignty, eh? SkyGreen24 08:59, May 1, 2014 (UTC)

OOC: OTL has no place here, for this is ATL. The Mughal Empire is only 30% of Indian ethnicity because of Timurid conquests. It was for the sake of the argument, showing that the Raja did not know of his own religion and arguing along the lines of the Raja's argument's by saying he does not know his own religion and is arguing against it. If I must, I may need to free 30% of my brethren from an oppressive 70% of ruling non-Indians. Also, Bengal isn't fighting against rebels, it's fighting against Ava, a nation not controlled (Yet) by anyone but Ava. Sovereignty for the Indians. The Timurid's killed at least a million in one day in Delhi, plus slaughtered some Timurid rebels in the Indian ethnic area ... Also, how did Hindu become the official language of a nation that slaughtered Hindu's to give it a larger Muslim majority without anyone saying "Hey, wait a minute". And the atrocity committed was removing their right to rule themselves. How could it be "my" India? I'm fighting for each nations independence in the wake of Mughal history of superiority, not for my own control of India, unlike someone wants literally their own singular India. Sultan-i-Bharate-Naiki: The Mughals have established the relations with the Indian states to see it owned by nothing other than themselves. They do not want independent states working together for a common interests and still holding their own titles. The Mughals would do nothing more than put their name across every state in India. They do not care for the sovereign rights of Mewar (Or whatever state the Raja wanted to annex). In fact, before the Indian War, they had Jaunpur and Bahamani under their thumb. Look at India now, each state free and has a ruler of its own that does not have to listen to a supposed more powerful leader and can choose their own destiny. Look at how India would have been, each state a vassal of the Mughal Empire as Jaunpur and Bahamani was before Indian intervention, slowly annexed until the name of these invaders would be synonymus with India. I have not given up Islam, but I was arguing along the lines of your own religion about how your arguments do not match your religion. Muhammad slaughtered over 800 innocent Jews, attacked innocent caravan drivers because they were of Mecca, and executed many in Mecca who insulted him. I will not forgive the people who killed over a million in Delhi in a day, and a million in Vijayanagar in two. What you are doing is best? You will become like the Sultan of Jaunpur or Sultan of Bahamani, a vessel of extenstion of Mughal influence. I do not wish to see India as a collection of vassalized, subservient states, but rather as independent states with their own kingdoms that are allied with other Indian states like themselves to keep their independence against those who wish to make them serve. If we are to speak of even Sunni-Sunni rivalries, must I remind you of your own attempts to control Hinduist Indian nations you have had no single event in history of warring against for the sake of power? I have done far more for the sovereign rights of each Indian nation than the Mughals have done by vassalizing and annexing Indian states. In fact, I believe that if it was not for Bengali-led opposition to Mughal occupation of India, Raja Vikram would not have the chance to speak right now, and would not ever be even able to dream of holding the title of Raja.

Raja Vikram: It is indeed shocking for me to hear someone insult his own religion ... The clerics at Bengal certainly will not forgive you for insulting your own Prophet. Nevertheless, it appears to me as though you have no knowledge of your own religion and have come up to try to persuade me to abandon my Mughal allies. Although, it is rare for staunch follower of Hinduism to teach another of Islam, I shall do it anyways for I have given up my previous radical ideologies and wish to have peaceful relationships with every single nation. Your Prophet did not massacre the 800 Jews for no reason. As agreed upon in the charter of Madina, all the tribes would unite to defend Madina if a foreign nation attempted to invade it. The Jews never helped the Muslims but despite this, they were forgiven. When the Jews then started to conspire against the Muslims were they exiled from Madina. First one Jewish tribes betrayed the Muslims then another. Tired of the constant betrayal, when the third Jewish tribe betrayed the Muslims were the men executed, women and children enslaved and land distributed and in fact, this was the punishment for those who break treaties written in the Torah itself. Second of all, the Makkan caravans that were raided actually contained the possessions of the Muslims that had migrated to Madina and the people of Makkah were illegally selling it to Syrians. I do not remember my Muslim teachers teaching me at Gwalior of anything related to executing someone who insulted him. I however do remember forgiving men who attempted to kill him using swords but were unable to ... Anyway, it is a shock for the Muslim King of Muslim Bengal spreading Islam to have no knowledge of his very own religion. As far as vassalization is concerned, it is none of your business as to which state the Mughals vassalize for neither does all India belong to you nor has Bengal refrained from vassalizing and committing aggression. Once again, I've given up my ideologies. And the truth be told, I Raja Vikram would've been much more happier under Mughal rule. My rise to power at Gwalior was for the mere reason to protect from being vassalized and annexed by Bengal. India would've indeed reach new heights under the Mughals but what is done is done. The Mughal conquest of India failed but that does not mean that we will break off ties with the Mughals for the Mughals are the only ones that can protect India from the wrath of Bengal.

Sultan-i-Bharate-Naiki: How sad it is that you think history is nonexistent and incomprehensible for religion. Muhammad had killed the Jews , and Muhammad had silence three men who insulted him. This is not against religious doctrine, for it carries historical evidence. I know my own religion, and I know that there is far more knowledge in understand this history around religion than simply reading the Qur'an and believing oneself to be the living embodiment of Islam. Now, what is this notion of Bengal wrath, annexation and vassalization? What state has Bengal taken that is Indian? What has Bengal done that has threatened Gwalior? Was it by defending your sovereign rights we offended you? This notion that Bengal is competing for Indian domination is foolish. Why defend the rights of those to rule themselves if we wish to annex them all? Your logic that Bengal is this warmongering state that is intent on vassalizing and annexing all of India is just simply foolish. Why would we defend the right to independent rule, create an organization to bring India together on the right to independent rule, and then wish to annex them? Now, of course it is our business who the Mughals vassalize and annex. Tell me, do you prefer freedom, or service? All you speak of is preferring to live upon your knees, groveling to the Mughals for their "greatness". The wrath of Bengal is one that pushed the Mughals out of India and preserved each nation. Our actual aggression and wrath has been towards non-Indian states, such as ... Never mind, Bengal has not even waged a war against a non-Indian except for the Mughals. Our wrath is almost non-existent as we peacefully extended the League into Arakan and Kamarumpa without the need for war. The only wrath that exists here, is your own and the Mughals. Go forth, and tell the Indian states of your desire to kiss the feet of the one they defended against for the sake of freedom. Go forth and tell them you wish to serve the one that wished to make us servants. Go forth and tell them that you will die for the Mughals before you die for India. Go forth and tell them that you prefer sand and desert over the lush jungles of India.

Raja Vikram: Go forth and tell them that you wish to ally with the peaceful Mughals instead of the land-grabbing Bengal. Go forth and tell them that you wish to befriend the mindingtheirownbusiness Mughals instead of Bengal which intervened in every action taken by Gwalior. Go forth and tell them you are willing to form an alliance with the peaceful Mughals instead of the conqueringinthenameofpeace Bengal ... I believe you forgot these ... How do you propose Bengal managed to conquer Andaman, Orissa, Ahom, Koch, etc? Do you believe we are unaware of your recent aggression in Ava? Do you believe the Indian League will continue to aid you in your constant aggression? Bengal never could defeat the Mughals so they fooled the Indian leaders to unite and defend India because it was the only way to maintain their Kingdoms. Bengal never mentioned that over time, this League would continue to have its members surrender to Bengal rule ... I would prefer to die for the Mughal Army than I would to aid the tyrannical Bengali ... The first leaders of the Bengali Sultanate might have worked for a good cause but now ... I see nothing else but greed in the eyes of the Bengali Royal Family . Your usage of the Indian League to protect Bengals interests is wrong and I refuse to accept it.

Sultan-i-Bharate-Naiki: We apologize for meddling in the business of Gwalior. We did not mean to preserve Merwar's independence within the League, nor did we mean to protect member nations against two who sought to subjugate them. What land has Bengal grabbed? Bengal did not conquer Andaman, it was empty of people until we established a trade post on the empty islands. Bengal did not conquer Orissa, Ahom or Koch. Our royal family married into Orissa and by chance their succession resulted in their union to Bengal. Ahom and Koch were vassalized through decades of trade, alliances, friendship, and aid. And we did not ask, they offered. The aggression in Ava is because of Bengali traders being imprisoned and possibly killed, likely because of their faith. It is also entirely possibly that other Indian nations have had their traders imprisoned by the Avanese. I have not asked any Indian nation to aid me in this occupation to gain back our citizens from the greedy Avanese. Bengal could have defeated the Mughals, but they certainly wouldn't have freed Jaunpur, Delhi or Bahamani. We have not fooled anyone into believing anything, it is the Mughal actions of annexation and vassalization, as well as massacring the populations of Vijaynagar that necessitated a need for action. You sir, are the one who deceives, calling Bengal a warmonger, a liar, and tyrannical. Not a single action has been taken by Bengal that has not been in the Leagues interest. The Indians resented Mughal rule (That was a mod event by the way) so we helped them fight the Mughals. The landlocked Indian nations needed a way to the sea, and each nation needed equal access to technology, so in order to stop petty feuds and increase trade, we asked the Indian nations to approve of the Free Travel of Merchants. Merwar deserves the right to be free and independent, especially if they are to be subjugated in war, so we asked the League to support us condemning your actions. You have shown much more hostility against League nations more than Bengal has, yet you call us warmongers and tyrants. It has been decades, "over time" as some would call it, yet no nation is subject to Bengali rule that is in the League. You speak as though you are already the puppet of those who seek to rule us.

Gwalior OOC: Ugh.. I give up. Bengal hates me because everything I do is opposite of how he envisioned India prior to my joining as Gwalior and Feud thinks I am Ratc. Possible for me to join as another state? I certainly can no longer role play as Gwalior for I no longer find any interest in it. Everything I do, ranging from establishing a port, meeting with Mughals, expanding etc everything is disliked by Bengal. So may I join as another nation, FeudalPlague?

  • Bengal: Agree
  • Delhi: Agree
  • Gondwana : Agree
  • Bastar: Agree
  • Khandesh: Disagree
  • Malwa: Agree
  • Mewar: Agree
  • Gujarat: Agree
  • Dhundhar: Agree
  • Gwailor: Disagree
  • Kathaiwar: Agree
  • Venad: Disagree
  • Bahamani: Agree
  • Jaunpur: Agree
  • Orissa: Agree
  • Kamarumpa: Agree
  • Andamana: Agree
  • Marwar: Disagree

Result: ?

A Formal Appeal of "In The Common Interest of Sovereignty"

After many years of a sordid history with the Mughal Empire and India, it has become apparent to the Sultan of Bengal that perhaps the time is right. The Mughal Empire is now controlled by a full blooded Indian, and one of our own League members to boot. Half of their population is now Indian. The time to stop living in the dark and with fears of powers that are non-existent is nigh. This proposal is created by the Sultan of Bengal to dismiss the previous League proposal upon the basis that the Mughal Empire is no longer a threat, and that withdrawing ourselves from our brothers upon our borders only destroys us, for if India is to remain strong, it must unite all of their children together under a banner of peace, prosperity, sovereignty, and freedom. By agreeing to this proposal, the states of India agree to recognize Marwar's rule over the Mughal Empire. Let it be known that the greatest of the Mughal's enemies have conjured the strength to forgive them and offer them their Indian population the chance to be considered Indian once more, for these are not the same rulers and people that so mercilessly slaughtered and sought to control our homelands as before, because while we can not forgive their forefathers for their crimes, we can not punish the children for acts they had no part in.

Rao Raja Singh: This must be a proposal I can not agree more with. But I say, not only is this a time where we forgive, but also remember. First we should remember my mother, who was among the last Indian women to marry Timurid royalty. Then we should remember my half-brother, Muhammad Mirza, who honoured his Indian heritage. Furthermore, we should honour Babur, Mirza's predecessor, who despite his tremendous loss against the might of the League, still tolerated the Indians in his land. Alas, we honour Sultan-i-Salais, who led India against the early Mughals while they were still in their Timurid frenzy. Moreover, let us not forget Raja Vikram, who has showed us, in his own unique way, that there are more important things in life than remembering old Feuds. And of course, I have to personally thank the people of Marwar for not attempting to assassinate me when I quickly took the Mughal crown. And as we can see, this moment is not a result of one man's work, nor one nation's work. It is the result that India achieved together. For peace, for prosperity, but more importantly, for India!

  • Bengal: Agree
  • Delhi: Disagree
  • Gondwana : Agree
  • Bastar: Agree
  • Vijaynagar: Agree
  • Khandesh: Agree
  • Malwa: Agree
  • Mewar: Agree
  • Gujarat: Agree
  • Dhundhar: Agree
  • Gwailor: Agree
  • Kathaiwar: Agree
  • Venad: Disagree
  • Bahamani: Disagree
  • Jaunpur: Agree
  • Orissa: Agree
  • Kamarumpa: Agree
  • Andamana: Agree
  • Marwar:  Agree

Result: 16 out of 19 agree. The previous issue is repealed and the Marwari rule over the Mughal Empire is approved.

In The Common Interest of Sovereignity (Invalid)

Many years ago, we fought a great and glorious war against the Mughal invaders that threatened the whole of India. Not only did we prove that as one people, we are mighty, but we also proved that the only tolerable influence of Indian states were the Indian states themselves. With current diplomatic changes in the way some Indian nations formerly conducted themselves, it has become apparent, that while our enemy was militarily defeated, it diplomatically was not. As we speak, the Mughal Empire and the Sultan of Bengal have been conspiring to bring forth Mughal influence back into India. The same Sultan that dreamed of uniting all of the Indians, defending the Leagues sovereignty, and protecting India is now allied with their "brother" that is the Mughals. If Mughal influence can reach so far into the heart of a nation that once fought bravely for his Indian brothers, then what is to say of the former Mughal lands, or Indian states beside the Mughal border? We did not sacrifice our brothers, our fathers, and our children to push back a threat just to give it the chance to pry its fingers back into our political courts and diplomatically enslave us just as the Timurids did with our still imprisoned brothers. This why the Raja of Gwalior [Former] has proposed to following to the Indian League in order to preserve the sovereignity of smaller border states more suceseptible to influence, and to end a threat as soon as it begins:

  • All Indian nations will halt their trade with the Mughal Empire. The Free Travel of Merchants proposal has ensured that all Indian nations will have access to the sea and each others nations. It should be noted that landlocked nations are able to send merchants to other Indian nations with ports and still reap the economic benefits.
  • All Indian nations will sever diplomatic ties with the Mughal Empire. Why must we ally with a nation we fought no more than 30 years ago in order to preserve ourselves, if we are to simply allow them back in as if they never slaughtered the people of Delhi, of Bahamani, of Venad, and of Vijayanagar?
  • All Indian nations will renounce any history of dealing with the Mughal Empire. We can not make a proposal for the present situation and ignore future implications. Any nation that has formerly allied with the Mughal Empire, formerly traded with them, formerly/currently married them royally, or formerly/currently has their throne in the Mughal Empire line of succession shall renounce these ties as never having existed.

Merely 8-9 years have passed and now all of the sudden, everybody decides to love the Mughals? NO. This is just fricken biased. Whoever fills it up for the NPC is biased because when Gwalior wanted to be ONLY FRIENDS with Mughal, everyone was like 'OH NOES HEZ GUNNA KEEL US' but when Bengal wants to be friends with Mughal, everyone is like 'OH YUS WE GUNNA BE FRUNDZ'

Remember this? Bengal is fucking controlling the entire League like its a single nation like WTF

  • but their continued policy of stepping into Indian affairs where they have certainly made themselves not welcomed for over 100 years and subjugation make them guilty of the same delusions of granduer that Timur held
  • The Mughal Empire is only 30% of Indian ethnicity because of Timurid conquests
  • If I must, I may need to free 30% of my breathen from an oppresive 70% of ruling non-Indians'
  • The Mughals would do nothing more than put their name across every state in India Hmm?
  • The only wrath that exists here, is your own and the Mughals. Go forth, and tell the Indian states of your desire to kiss the feet of the one they defended against for the sake of freedom. Go forth and tell them you wish to serve the one that wished to make us servants. Go forth and tell them that you will die for the Mughals before you die for India. Go forth and tell them that you prefer sand and desert over the lush jungles of India
  • Bengal:
  • Delhi:
  • Gondwana :
  • Bastar:
  • Vijaynagar:
  • Khandesh:
  • Malwa:
  • Mewar:
  • Gujarat:
  • Dhundhar:
  • Gwailor: Agree
  • Kathiawar:
  • Venad:
  • Bahamani:
  • Jaunpur:
  • Orissa:
  • Kamarumpa:
  • Andamana:
  • Marwar:

Result:?

Heilig, not only are you not anymore Gwalior, you are also vandalizing this page for no reason. Yes, the 'In the Common Interest of Sovereignity' was made, but on the other hand, during your absence as Gwalior, the Mughals entered a personal union with Marwar, in which and Indian came onto the throne. As for the 50%/30% issue, the 30% is an older fact and 50% might be more correct. As for your Gwalior thing, here's a few reasons as to why it's a lot different. When you began playing, Gwalior become an overly-religious state, nearly wishing to wage war against the Muslims of India. Then, you decided to drop that and develop diplomatic ties with the Mughal Empire, which was, back then, a primarily Sunni Islamic nation. Although I'm unsure as to whether you need to be reported or something simillar, this is just a needless and aggressive move. SkyGreen24 12:01, May 13, 2014 (UTC)

The Enterence of the Port of Katrina (Karachi) Into the League

The Port of Katrina, an Alexandrian possession in OTL Karachi, seeks entrence into the League. The small city-state has a budding economy, is a hub for trade from Europe and the Middle East to India. Katrina would provide a trade port for all Indian nations to send their goods and interact with Alexandrian Traders. 

Rao Raja Singh:The Alexandrian port of Katrina, is indeed a hub of trade and it has, alongside with Hungary, the Netherlands and Milan helped establish trade between the Mughal Empire and Europe. However, because of the following points, I believe it should not become a member of the League.

Firstly, the obvious reason. Even though located in India, the Port of Katrina is only geographically Indian. The Indian League is an organization of Indians, and I believe it should stay like that.

Moreover, the location of the Port of Katrina is inside Mughal territory, a nation that is not a member of the League. Although the Mughal Empire is ruled by myself, allowing the Port of Katrina access to the Indian League would also create the need for a land corridor that would lead to the port. This would be costly and ineffective.

Finally, the Port of Katrina is under direct Alexandrian command. Letting it into the League as a member would allow the Alexandrians to vote about Indian issues.

Because of this, I believe we should not allow the Port of Katrina to join the League.

SkyGreen24 10:43, May 13, 2014 (UTC)

Sultan-i-Bhāṛāṭē-naiki: We can not agree with Rao Raja Singh more. Allowing foreign nations into the League utterly destroys the purpose of having it for strictly Indian affairs and creates the possibility of abuse by foreign powers, letting them in so that they may propose issues in their benefit at the cost of all of India.

Member Decisions:

  • Bengal: Disagree
  • Gondwana: Disagree
  • Bastar: Disagree
  • Vijaynagar: Agree
  • Khandesh:Disagree
  • Malwa:Disagree
  • Mewar:Disagree
  • Gujarat: Agree
  • Dhundhar:Disagree
  • Marwar: Disagree
  • Gwailor:Disagree
  • Dhundhra: Disagree
  • Kathaiwar: Disagree
  • Venad: Agree
  • Orissa: Disagree
  • Kamarumpa: Disagree
  • Andamana: Disagree

Result: 16/19, the issues is not passed and the Port of Katrina shall not enter the Indian League.

The Betrayal of India

My fellow Indians, we have been deceived. The one that rules the Mughal Empire, the Rao Raja Singh of Marwar, has betrayed us. We were told specifically that he had NO ability to conquer India, yet what has happened recently? He has influence, bribed, and blundered his way to vassalizing the Raja of Jaislamer. His word is BROKEN! His lies are EXPOSED! I had accused him of planning such acts, yet the words of the serpent spoke words of honey that could not be denied. I had proposed the forgiveness of this fiend, and allowed the same evil that desired a conquered India to be brought into our midst. For this reason, and the fact that the League's laws respecting sovereignty of each individual Indian state from this petty land grabbing have also been broken, we call each and every true, faithful, and just Indian state forth to show these liars that they can not control India and deceive us no longer for we all see the truth now! Rao Raja Singh did not conquer the Mughals through love, he adopted their ways in exchange for his honor, integrity, and loyalty to the cause of the League to prevent India from becoming one state that respects not the rights of others to independence. Let not the serpents words come forth here and sway you as it once did I, for no matter the justification of their actions, it is the same action taken by the slaughtering Timurids, their corrupt Mughal descendants, and now taken by the treacherous Marwarian Mughal Empire. Onward my brothers! For India! For the League! For your families, and for all of our independence! Let it be said that we desired to fight on our feet, rather than serve on our knees! 

Rao Raja Singh: I see the Sultan has not changed. This kind of farce should have been expected, yet I believed he had finally come to his senses. I am being accused of bribing, and what not in order to gain control over the Rajya of Jaisalmer. Little does the Sultan know, but I, knowing that Jaisalmer had access to the rest of India, but wishing to help a fellow Indian further, I had offered them trade pacts concerning the Mughal Empire. Of course, at first, it seems as if I have taken control of the nation, yet I am merely the economical advisor of the Raja of Jaisalmer, nothing more, nothing less. For some, this might seem as I have been favouring some over others, but this was merely to see how it would progress. Knowing that me attempting to open the borders of the Mughal Empire and India would be seen as a betrayal, I decided to take it slow and gain the trust of one nation at the time. Yet the Sultan, as his ancestors did used any chance he had to sacrifice Indian lives for nothing. I see no proof that anyone is being oppressed, yet my borders are being covered in blood because the Sultan has decided so. Before this blood bath carries on, I wish for a fair "trial" if you wish.

Sultan Illyas-Bhāṛāṭē-naiki: The reason it seems as if you have taken control of the nation, is because you have. Instituting your rule over a nation, making it act in a manor that you desire, and not letting it individually act on its own constitutes control of a nation. You are no mere economic advisor, you are a conspiring traitor. I have no problem with trade pacts, but I do have concerns over the loss of an League nations sovereignty to another League nation. The betrayal of one by their brother is an inconceivable act somehow rendered justifiable by yourself. The borders of the Mughal Empire were open to India, after your falsely written message proclaiming the apparent change in the Empire, and declaring, and I quote "we CAN NOT control India". Reading these serpentine words, you were able to get all of India to believe that the Mughal Empire has changed with an Indian at its head. All of this, however, was found to be constructed lies when you violated League law by violating the sovereignty of a fellow League nation. Not only was this a heinous act to begin with, but to be carried out by one we called a brother makes it all the more wicked. Gaining the trust of one nation at a time? You mean the same process that your ancestors, the Timurids carried out to force Multan, Kashmir, Ladakh, Kangra, Jangladesh, and Sind into serving that malevolent empire that then, taking advantage of this this "trust", annexed them and killed those that fought for sovereignty? Enough of these same actions, they have spoke louder than your words for they have herald that you can not learn that past mistakes should never be repeated. My ancestors sacrificed lives for nothing? Your own nation would not exist to violate your brothers sovereignty if it was not for my ancestors war against the Mughals. This League which has benefited India so greatly would not exist if not for my ancestors. India would've perished under foreign blades if not for my ancestors. Your belief that this League, that sovereignty, that India controlled by Indians is "nothing" is precisely the reason why you have found yourself in this situation and have failed to understand that India will not tolerate subjugation. By dictating the actions of the Raja of Jaisalmer, you have oppressed the people of Jaisalmer from their rightful, independent ruler. By dictating the policies of Jaisalmer, you have oppressed the interests of the people of Jaisalmer. Your borders are covered in blood for these reasons, for lying to India, and for failing to understand the right of Jaisalmer to sovereign rule itself. Your fair trial has been conducted by the League members below. This will be the last time the Mughals attempt to impose their will upon a sovereign independent India, and the last time we have to fight the Mughals for that right, for India stands united to finish what it started decades ago, and institute true sovereignty to the Mughal Empire.

Rao Raja Singh: Do you truly wish to know how many nations the Mughal Empire has bribed and influenced and what ever you accuse it for? Not a single one. Not only that, but Emperor Babur's first resolution was the renewal of trade pacts and friendlier relations with the bordering Indian nations. From what it seems, you have been remembering the sins of the Timurids and projecting them onto the Mughal Empire and now onto both the Marwari-Mughali union. And now, when the nation of Jaisalmer and the Union have had their relations improved because of geopolitical reasons, it's still the only nation in 58 years of the existence of the Mughal Empire that might and a big might, have its sovereignty threatened. I'm not sure what the exact trigger was that led your predecessors to call upon all of India to sacrifice the lives of its people, It might have been the fact that your predecessor felt threatened once the Mughal Empire came so close to him but I'm not going to go into that. Let's just list the "atrocities" the Mughali Emperors have done over the years. Babur began improving relations with Indian nations in order to differentiate himself from the Timurid Emperors, primarily Amjad the Mad. Mirza the Lawmaker has during his rule made the Mughal Empire a land of equals with his numerous new laws. And let's see what I did, ah yes, instead of doing it the Bengali way and bribe the leaders to do their bidding, which would allow me to have a say in the Jaisalmer governing and Jaisalmer to profit. I do not know how the Bengali mentality functions, nor am I willing to find out, but it seems that you simply can not stop mentioning "ancestors". You blame the Mughals for what the Timurids did and you say your ancestors have sacrificed your lives. I don't recall Sultan-i Salais (I or II) dying during battle against the Mughal Empire. No, he sacrificed the life of others to achieve his cause. And perhaps you don't know this, but since Mirza was in Marwar at the time of the war, any attempts of military leaders to counterattack Marwar were reconsidered in order to keep the young Mirza safe. I do not know which kind of beasts are possessing the leaders of the Indian nations to do your bidding, but I must tell you, all your accusations are only here to do the same thing as your ancestors. Send Indians to battle while the Bengali sit and enjoy the show.

Sultan Illyas-Bhāṛāṭē-naiki: I do hope that to take utter control of Jaisalmer, Jaunpur and Bahamani you influenced them, lest it make your previous rule over Jaunpur and Bahamani far less legitimate than it already was, and your current rule over Jaisalmer all the more treacherous. "Might be threatened"? The loss of the ability to determine their own course, the loss of their ability to project their interests, and the loss of their rightful ruler to rule without having to heed the commands of a traitor "Might" threaten their sovereignty? I, Illyas-Bhāṛāṭē-naiki, has and will never be against two nations improving their relations. However, you, your ancestors (I will continue to mention your ancestors as long as you continue to mention my own), and your predecessors do not do it for the sake of relation improvement. The Timurids did it to control Multan, Kashmir, Ladakh, Kangra, Jangladesh, and Sind. The Mughals under Babur did it to attempt to control Gwalior, Dhundha, Jaisalmer, Kathiawar. The Mughals under you have done it to take Jaisalmer, and who knows what else. The reason that today, Gwalior, Dhundha and Kathiawar are not under your rule is because of Bengali action to counter Mughali plans of domination and subjugation, the reason that Jaisalmer will be free, is again, because of Bengali action. "Bengali way and bribe the leaders to do their bidding". Have you truly been unable to counter my arguments and instead decided to simply copy what I have exposed of you? At least attempt to use your own words against me, not my words against you, corrupted and pushed against myself by tyrants. "Atrocities", such as disregarding the sovereignty of each individual Indian nation is the second greatest crime anyone of your location has accomplished, second only to the massacre's of Delhi and Vijaynagar. I am truly sorry that my father and grandfather could not die in battle so that your plans could succeed, because you don't understand it do you? One man can not stop a nation of tyrants, no, like the meaning behind the Indian League, it takes an army of people, united, not alone, to topple tyrants that seek the domination and subjugation of their neighbors. I am also truly sorry that Mirza couldn't handle his "tolerant" Empire that sought to describe the differences between Hindus and Muslims at every turn while the Bengali Sultanate could only describe them as what they were, people, rather than religion, and then had to flee his throne for something he could handle. Perhaps you don't know this, but the only reason Mirza gained the Mughal's throne, and agreed to let Babur keep him as an heir, was because my grandfather truly believed that if an Indian was in control of the Mughal Empire, all war would cease and peace would envelope India for centuries. However, as we have seen, it does not matter who controls the Mughal Empire, it always devolves into its same tricks and schemes to control India, showing the League that the Mughal Empire must be removed if it is to be safe for it can not even rely on an Indian to respect League laws. Now you dare to call the leaders of the League nations that respect the sovereignty of Jaisalmer and detest your goals of subjugation "Beasts"? Have you no restraint, no shame, and no honor and must bring yourself to insult ALL of India? "Send Indians to battle while the Bengali sit and enjoy the show." Now you can not even bring yourself to regard the Bengali as Indians? At least I have enough respect to regard you as an Indian, despite you also being a traitor, a liar and a tyrant. Finally, perhaps your tone will change when the first Indian army to hand you defeat is Bengali. Prepare for justice.

Rao Raja Singh: You see, I said your ancestors as those whom you share blood with. Of course, I do share ancestry with Mirza through our mother, but neither Babur was related to me, nor was Aryan, Draka, Amjad or Timur himself. And you still seem to wish to lie, as the Mughali under Babur merely attempted to trade with the four nations. To say I copied what you "exposed" I have done? Of course, because sending "gifts" to the Jaunpur council members or the Bahmani ruler shouldn't be considered a bribe. As for insulting my half-brother, not every man is fit to rule, and although Mirza was in his prime a good leader, he had private issues which would have interfered with his judgment. And for your information, one of the first laws Mirza had made was the law of religious tolerance. And let me explain why I said that the Bengali sit while the Indians battle. It is because, I am informed about the census reports of yours. (You describe your main ethnicity as Bengali, not Bengali Indians, but Bengali) It seems that you don't consider yourself Indian, so why should I? And the beasts I speak about are quite known. Those nasty little bats, alien to our regions. You must hear the stories about how they fly in from space and seem to control the mind of the people who fall victim to their attack.

Sultan Illyas-Bhāṛāṭē-naiki: I speak of ancestors as they are described in Bengali law "Any person from whom an estate is inherited", that way a lady may claim her husbands family as ancestors, and create a more fluid social system that can rely on both blood relation and inheritance, explaining why I tend to refer to yourself as having the Timurids and Babur as ancestors because you have inherited their estates and Empire. Again, I am not against relation building, but for over one-hundred years, your ancestors, the Timurids, and the Mughal Emire, have sought to subjugate India through "gifts" that turn out to be nothing more than bribes that ended up putting them in control of, and violating the sovereignty of, Indian nations. I speak of Indians as one large group of people with different cultures, beliefs and ethnicities. There can be Bengali Indians are but one of many different type of Indians. If you can not accept that there can be differences, then your ideas of tolerance are for nothing. Remember this League law that Marwar signed? "stop petty feuds from destroying the unity of the Indian peoples." You have failed to realize that your feud with the sovereignty of India will destroy the unity of the League by creating one large tyrant state, subjugating all of India, rather than individual sovereign states. I will not grace your mad comment on aliens and bats with a reply.


Member Decisions:

Result:

Footnotes

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