Talk: Map Africa (VegWorld).png

This is a cool map. I'd colour Good Hope a bit lighter though (it's hard to see the writing in some cases.) --Sikulu 08:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

P.S. What do all the colours mean anyway? (I'd expect they'd be ethnic groups; am I right?) --Sikulu 08:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

First of all, I'm happy that you noticed the map I worked hard to create. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that by researching for it, I've learned more about the ethnic groups of Africa in the past 2 1/2 weeks than I had in all my life up until then. I was wondering, myself, if maybe Good Hope was too dark. I'll try to change that...and change "territorries" to "territories". As for the colors, you're right. They represent main groupings of ethnic groups and languages. Green (minus the League of Nations territories and Beja) represents countries where the dominant language is of the Niger-Congo language groups, minus the Bantu offshoot. Brown is for Bantu. Red represents the Cushitic branch of Afro-Asiatic languages. The green for Beja is for that language, which might be Cushitic, but might be an independent branch inside Afro-Asiatic. Yellow represents the other branches of Afro-Asiatic (chiefly Berber/Tamazight and Semitic (in this case, Arabic)). Purple is for Nilo-Saharan. Pinkish in southern Africa stands for Khoisan languages. Blueish (to purplish) indicates Indo-European, and these places have large European populations. However, the teal of Madagascar indicates Austronesian (Malagassy). Dark green (with the number 6), as you can see, represents (environmental and ethnic) conservation areas. For example, the large area in Central Africa is largely set aside for Pygmy groups (in addition, of course, to the organisms inhabiting the huge rainforest). Thanks again for your comments. I also worked hard delineating the borders and naming the countries. Look some of the unknown names up, and you'll probably find out that there's a real ethnic group, region, or former kingdom named that.--Riction 13:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I notice that Mali, Dahomey, Kanem and Bornu aren't on the map. How come? --Sikulu 16:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Is there any reason why *here's* Tunisia is spelt Punisia *there*? Also, why is the rest of Libya not divided into the Fezzan and Cyrenaica (like so)? --Sikulu 17:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, perhaps you could label the "French Western Sahara Preserve" with a number, part of the writing intersects the boundary of that region (I'm hesitant to call it a state though). --Sikulu 17:26, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

All very good questions! And basically, it came down to my preferences. I haven't set the history yet, but there are a few reasons why Mali might not exist. One is that the future Mali Empire was a tiny state at first, inside the Wagadou (Ghana) Empire, until "Muslim fanatics of mostly Berber extraction" (Wikipedia's words) destroyed its capital, and later, after the Sosso, Mali gained more power. However, a simple history that diverges less would just be that the Songhai Empire merely took the place of the Mali Empire, incorporating its territories.

As for Dahomey, when looking at the Wikipedia page of the same name, it becomes clear that a large part of the culture was based on "human sacrifice" and it grew largely because of the slave trade (like many other African Empires), but it seems that the European "guns for slaves" trade helped them to expand quickly. Because the slave trade ended much more quickly in my world, and Europeans were appalled by the human sacrifices, a series of unfortunate (for Dahomey) events led to its quick downfall (or it just never grew into anything like its OTL empire). The same for the Kingdom of Benin, as a look at its flag will show. A "Fulani" state is conspicuously absent, but they're the minority of many nations, and because of their "jihad" history, I didn't give them control of any state. Kanem and Bornu could have extended around my Chad, Kanuri, western Yoruba, and Biafra, but I limited it mostly to Kanuri, which is made up of a mixture of the Kanem and Bornu peoples.

Tunisia is spelled "Punisia" because it's more "Punic". In this particular world, Rome might still have conquered Carthage like it did in OTL (thus avoiding monumental changes to the ATL...though this isn't Vegetarian World canon yet), but out of a sense of history, the area might be named after the Punic civilization (and it seems a strain of Phoenecian might have even survived a little past the Arabic conquests of North Africa, and could still be a minority language in Punisia in my world). With Libya, it was just my preference at the time which led to Cyrenaica and Fezzan coming together, but without Tripolitania. Both Cyrenaica and Libya are Greek terms, but I'm not sure how large a role I want Greeks to play in my Libya. The name "Libya" comes from an ancient tribe of Berbers, but is also a Greek name for it, whereas Cyrenaica is only Greek. I think that that gives me more freedom as to what I want Libya to be like. Without a doubt, Tripolitania is the most famous of the three divisions, and I might want it to have a more European culture than the other areas of OTL Libya...thus, it's independent. No doubt, Libya will have the Cyrenaica and Fezzan regions inside the single state. Or, I might change things around after all... Hmm...

Besides these, there are other great changes in Africa. Firstly, the Berber languages are spoken more than in OTL (and thus Arabic is spoken less). There is a greater Christian and Jewish influence in North Africa, too. In OTL, the Khoisan and Pygmies are marginalized and endangered, but in my ATL, they are flourishing. The Bantu migrations weren't as thorough.

I'll give the French Western Sahara Preserve a number. Keep the comments coming, as they are helpful.--Riction 01:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Come to think of it, Murakush, the Boer Free State, Beja, Madagascar and Abyssinia should be labeled with a number for the same reason as the FWSP (either that or just move the name out of the way of the border). --Sikulu 09:34, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, what happens to Oran. Also, why call the (presumably Spanish) bit in North Africa "Ceuta and Melila", since the territory covers much more than those two cities. Perhaps "Spanish North Africa" or something would be a better name. --Sikulu 09:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I added Oran to the map. I didn't know that it had the largest percentage of Europeans in North Africa, nor about the massacre there after Algerian independence. As for Ceuta and Melilla, it's an independent country (though with a mostly Iberian culture). Its name is similar to "Turks and Caicos" or "Trinidad and Tobago", the latter of which is an independent country. In my timeline, the forts turned into cities (like they are in OTL), and then the cities expanded into countries. There was also some sort of merging of them, maybe when they both attained independence. --Riction 10:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Curious. --Sikulu 12:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps Oran should belong to Occitania and Catalonia? --Sikulu 08:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmm...maybe I'll rework the map, or maybe I'll give them some other colony somewhere else. Generally, Occitania and Catalonia hasn't been too expansionist as of late, but it may make you feel better to know that Florida used to be a Catatanian territory, and it's still part of their commonwealth of nations system (and Occitan and Catalan together are spoken by the majority of Floridians). Probably some Arawakan (Caribbean) islands and perhaps some land in Pacha (South America) might still be Catatanian. --Riction 10:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Oran could be an early Catatanian aquitision (it was captured twice by the Spanish *here*, first in 1509 (lost in 1708 to the Turks), then again in 1732 (later sold back to the Turks)). --Sikulu 13:22, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Awesome map! i love the colours Gimli 14:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! I appreciate the comment! --Riction 10:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)