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This is the discussion page for the Congress of Geneva in the map game Congress of Vienna.
Welcome to Geneva. I am Vinzenz Rüttimann, President of the Swiss Diet, the host of this Congress.
We are here to solve the following problems:
- Piedmontese Iceland Problem
- Turkish lands
We are determined to resolve war in Europe and bring the peace that did not arrive after the Congress of Vienna to Europe.
Currently the Ottoman Empire has given away:
- The Balkan Peninsula, except for Constantinople, to Austria, France, Greece and Russia
- Holy Land to the Papal States - State of the Church
- Egypt and the part of Libya to the east of Tripoli to the UK
- Everything to the west of Tripoli and Tripoli to Piedmont - Sardinia
- Ottoman Empire: We are determined not to give away any more lands.
- Naples - Sicily: We awaits a clear and peaceful plan for the Balkan to ensure stability of the region.
- United Kingdom: This plan seems fair for us and we support any attempt to bring peace to the Balkans.
- Sweden: We understand that the Ottomans want to protect their lands, and we defend this right. Stability and peace should be returned to all regions in and around the Ottoman Empire.
- Russian Empire: We defend our right to continue our war in the Caucasus. By continuing the war to the East, peace for the most part has been brought to Europe, many countries has gained lands, and was gained Christians who suffered oppression by Ottoman rule. We do support peace in the Balkans, and are willing to help defend the ethnicities in our Territories, no matter who fights them. Sweden is a fool for thinking that the Ottoman Empire would want to end this war peacefully. Once they regrow themselves, they will attack Greece, the Balkans, and the Holy Lands, maybe even with cruelty not seen since the Thirty Years' War. And yet, the Swedish were the ones who headlined the attack against our great Empire, and cost us our great Petrograd. I hope the fine nations of Europe here realize what a privilege that Russia is doing, by taking war elsewhere, peace is coming to Europe.
- United Kingdom: The British Empire states that the Ottomans have shown only a desire for peace, while the Russian Empire has continued its attacks. If the Ottomans decide to attack Western civilisation in the future, then we can be certain that the west will unite against the threat. .A threat which so far seems to be under attack by Greece rather than plotting world domination like the Corsican upstart Napoleon.
- Piedmont-Sardinia: We believe that the Ottomans are a great threat to Europe, especially due to the destruction of the Byzantine Empire, and the Siege of Prague and offers that the Ottomans relinquish all land in Europe to bring peace, including Istanbul since it is not their rightful land.
- Russian Empire: While not part of our alliance, we are glad someone agrees with us.
- Greece will stop fighting in Europe if that is for the greater European good, but would like to keep lands gained. (Izmir and the peninsula it's situated on). Also, what land does France have in the Balkans?
- Russian Empire: What if we could have you gain Constantinople?
- Bavaria: (It appears the king was held up in an alpine pass) The king makes the following proposal: 1. The lands designated as French be made into an independent nation under French protection. This makes sense, considering their distance from mainland France and their different ethnic makeup. 2. The Ottomans give up all European land, including Constantinople. That city should become an independent city-state, which would allow freedom of movement, freedom of religion, and would be completely neutral. The Bosporus would also be neutral.
- Piedmont-Sardinia: Agrees.
- Ottoman Empire: We do not want to give away Constantinople. However, if you all want to then we have to accept. But we want to keep Caucasus, and let the UK and Sweden guard our neutrality in future conflicts.
- UK: If a peace deal can be made, the UK will agree to guard Ottoman neutrality.
- Bavaria: Agrees that the Ottomans should keep the Caucasus, with a guarantee from France, Britain and Sweden that if Russia attacks, they will defend the Ottomans.
- Russian Empire: This is a great mistake. They will use this chance to invade Greece and the Balkans, and extend their attacks west. They once had territory as far as Hungary into Europe, with enough firepower and troops, they could make it further. The only reason Sweden is doing this, is so that they will have an ally (which unlike Denmark, is reliable) that could take on any of their other enemies. We have liberated Christians from Romania, and our parts of Serbia and Bulgaria, who have stated that they feel freer under Russian rule. Maybe in the past, when the Turks treated all religions well, it could have been believable, but not now, where extremists are in charge of the Empire.
- Bavaria: Yes, they once had territory as far west has Hungary, but that was in the 1500s, hundreds of years ago. The Ottomans are now weaker than they have ever been. There is no way on earth they could successfully invade Greece and the Balkans, especially since that region has been divided amongst the great powers (and Greece). The Caucasus has a mixture of Orthodox Christians and Muslims, so the old "freeing the Christians" card can be used less here. Anyway, if the Caucasus are to be taken by Russia, then the Ottomans should be given some other territory to make up for it.
- Russian Empire: All right. Fine. We will withdraw from the Caucasus region, on the promise the Ottoman Empire never attacks Christians, and that Sweden or Denmark does not get involved with Ottoman affairs.
- Austria: Austria demands the Ottomans keep Constantinople, they've lost so much already, the terms are too harsh already, stop taking all of this land! Austria will return its conquests to the Ottomans as an the Ottoman vassal called the Khanate of the Balkans. And why does Russia get all this land, the Austrians demand more land in the Balkans from Russia or face war.
- Russian Empire: We are outraged by this threat. We have already agreed to leave the Caucasus region, and we won the land from warfare, and even then France and Greece got just as much land. And if you're in the Ottoman's interests, why do you ask for more land?
- Piedmont-Sardinia: We agree with Russia and will interfere in any hostile actions committed by Austria.
- Bavaria: We think that Austria should not be so vocal in its "demanding more land". In the proposal, the king of Bavaria made very sure that virtually all of the southern provinces that Prussia had to give up went to Austria, including oil-rich Galicia. We also divided the Balkans so that you would receive quite a substantial amount of land. The division of the Ottoman Empire has been done to give the ethnic groups freedom from the oppressive rule of the Ottomans. Does it not make sense for Greeks to be in Greece, Slavs to be in Russia, and Albanians to live in a separate Albania? Although it sounds stupid, by taking their European provinces from them, the Ottomans will be better off. Without so many vocal, violently independent-minded minorities in their empire, things will be able to run more smoothly and they will not have nearly as many insurrections to deal with. If you are worried that we will start dividing up your empire along ethnic lines, don't be, because you are the Hapsburgs, and we don't interfere with the Hapsburgs. Russia had to give up land to make Poland, and also gave up their claims to the Caucasus, so don't think they've only gained land. And as a final word of warning, the Hapsburgs of 1826 would not stand a chance in a war against Russia; just look at what they did to the mighty Napoleon, who had all of Europe behind him.
- Switzerland: We can adopt that idea of Balkan state from Austria, however, only lands attributed to Austria will be returned, but not as an integral region of the Ottomans but rather an ally of the Ottomans. This is favorable to Austria as it has neutralized and freed itself from all alliances. So we will adopt the Bavarian Proposal, with one change: create a Balkan Emirate (the Islamic thing, not a Khanate which is a Mongolian thing). I think this plan is acceptable to everybody. Let's go on this.
Since Piedmont - Sardinia occupied Southwestern Iceland, the Northern Alliance launched an attack on that portion. Although those troops withdrew, the situation has not completely been solved.
- Netherlands: Unless Piedmont - Sardinia completely de-militarize this corner of Iceland, we do not promise anything about future attacks.
- Denmark: Agrees with the Netherlands.
- Piedmont-Sardinia: I did offer de-militarization in our peace offer to Sweden, and most of our troops are out of the region save for the U.K.'s military base.
- United Kingdom: Though the UK has decided to remain neutral in this conflict, the military base is considered British territory and will not be returned. Other than the use of the base as a place to station the north fleet, we have no other interest in Iceland and who owns it.
- Sweden: We want peace and have left Iceland.
- Russian Empire: We consider ourselves neutral in this conflict as well, if Piedmont-Sardinia promises de-militarization of their Icelandic base, then we see no problem of them holding territory there. Otherwise, we too have no interest in the affairs of Iceland.
- United Kingdom: So the matter is settled, Iceland is to be shared, with Piedmont-Sardinia de-militarizing its territory. If you wish i offer the use of the military base as neutral ground to sign the treaty.
- Piedmont-Sardinia: Iceland will be de-militarized
- Bavaria: Agrees to the motion, and recalls whatever Bavarian troops are still in Iceland.
- Netherlands: Withdraw all troops from Iceland. Also wishes the United Kingdom to guard this peace.
- Denmark: Withdraw all troops from Iceland.
- Bavaria: I don't think Denmark should have to withdraw, I mean, Iceland is their colony.
- Belgium: Withdraws all troops from Iceland.
- Naples - Sicily: We would like to introduce an Italian Federation (like the German one) consisting of Naples, Piedmont, Papal States and Austria. Respond by saying "OK".
- Piedmont-Sardinia: No.
- Russian Empire: Neutral opinion.
- Spain: Neutral opinion.
- Naples-Sicily: Why not? We can have a Federal Council like Germany, one rep. per nation.
- Papal States: OK. (Random.org, because Victor said he's away).
- Piedmont-Sardinia: Because we still don't like you.
- Papal States: We have some points: First, the Confederation was proposed by the Papal States to Piedmont and Naples, therefore Piedmont can't deny Naples membership - neither should Austria be included. Second, the Confederation was already accepted by Piedmont with the Pope as official leader, but having a united Council of the three nations making the decisions and I suppose by Naples as well so it already exists and we should already create a page.
- Piedmont-Sardinia: Accepted the Confederation offer the first time when it was offered, which Naples - Sicily never responded to, so it was basically null. Naples - Sicily is now offering something different that is declined.
- Naples - Sicily: OK.
Any nation may propose a map for Europe here.
Note: Please put your nation name on heading 3 style. Maps are put on size 250 px.
Bavarian ProposalThis map outline Bavaria's main proposals:
- The Balkans: Shared between Russia, Greece, Austria, and Albania (pink), a puppet/vassal/protectorate of France. The French king could even place a relative on the Albanian throne. The independent city-state of Constantinople is in Black.
- Prussia: The Prussian king would not be particularly pleased that he lost his Baltic territories in the Vienna Congress, especially since he was such a staunch opponent to Napoleon. Therefore, in our proposal, it has been returned, and Prussia's southern territories reduced to compensate.
- Poland: Denmark, by having Poland, is basically tying itself to a corpse. It is a nation with a (sometimes violently) independent population. Russia had a hard enough time ruling it OTL, imagine how little hope Denmark has of keeping it! By my proposal, Poland becomes an independent kingdom/duchy. As compensation, Denmark can nominate the new Polish monarch (perhaps a relative?), and should receive some colonial territory somewhere, e. g., the Danish Gold Coast could be expanded.
- Piedmont-Sardinia: We agree,
but believe that Constantinople should perhaps gain some land on the opposite side of Thrace.It is also suggested that it is created as a pure democracy similar to ancient Greece.
- Sweden: Ethnic groups in the Balkans, such as Slovaks, Serbs or Croats, should have the right to seek self-representation if they wish, whether this is in the form of a council or an independent state. We agree with all other proposals.
- Bavaria: That makes sense. The Balkan ethnic groups will have special autonomy within the states they're annexed to. Constantinople could, indeed, be a pure democracy, but I don't understand what you mean by land on the other side of Thrace?
- Russian Empire: We planned on making our own map, but find this map acceptable, though invading Poland would anger the Poles in our Empire, so we'll tolerate an independent Poland, as long as immigration is limited from Russia to Poland. We like the territory we have gained from the Balkans, since it extends to our longtime brothers, the Serbs, though we wonder if Greece is okay with an independent Constantinople.
- Bavaria: Such restrictions could be made, and the Bavarian king is glad His Imperial Majesty finds his map worthy of praise. As to Constantinople, Greece hasn't said anything yet, however their input will seriously considered.
- Greece is perfectly happy with all changes made, and is happy with Constantinople being an independent city-state.
- Austria: No! Constantinople is Ottoman!
- Constantinople will Remain Ottoman.
- Albania will become a sovereign nation though with the French monarch at its head.
- Poland will be independent, but the old Polish Royal family will take the throne.
- Russia will stop all invasions.
- The Balkan Khanate will be made of Austrian territory taken from the Ottomans and be a client state of the Austrians.
- Bavarian Objections:
- Firstly, Poland had no real royal family, since it was an elective monarchy.
- Secondly, we see no reason why the Slavs in the proposed "Balkan Khanate" should be a client of the German Austrians. Doesn't it make sense for them to be with their Slavic brothers, the Russians?
- Thirdly, the reasons Constantinople was made independent were twofold: 1, Constantinople is a city of very mixed ethnicity, with thousands of Greeks, thousands of Turks, thousands of Egyptians, and lots and lots of Slavs. 2, It is in an extremely important strategic point. It controls access to the Black Sea, and therefore effectively controls Russia's access to the rest of the world. If the straits remained Ottoman, they could close them to any ships they wanted, strangling trade. And anyway, haven't the Ottomans have been Austria's enemy no. 1 since the siege of Vienna?
- With regards to the French monarch ruling Albania in personal union, that could be an option, but he would doubtless spend his entire life in France, barely visiting his eastern lands. Having a monarch in absentia spreads political discontent, which is something we are here to try and avoid. In our opinion, it is better for all parties involved if the French monarch gives the Albanian throne to a brother or nephew, who can reside in Albania, learn the native language/s and customs, and be known and loved by the people.
- Bavaria, you are greedy, and Constantinople will either be Ottoman or Austria will declare war.
- Piedmont-Sardinia: We do not agree at all with Austria. Also, a Balkan Khanate would be impossible because a Khanate is ruled by nomadic Mongolian nomads and wouldn't make much sense. Not to mention that everyone (besides Austria) agrees with the Bavarian proposal.
- Switzerland: We can adopt the idea of Balkan Khanate thing (because Austria neutralized) but it should rather be neutral (and a republic - name it Yugoslavia I suppose) or become an Ottoman protectorate/vassal state as an Emirate (which is Islamic).
- Piedmont-Sardinia: A Muslim state in a Christian-majority location may disrupt the region.
- Austria: I agree with Austria that it be a full fledged independent Republic, or an Ottoman Protectorate.
|Austrian Proposal||Bavarian Proposal (with Balkan State)|
Switzerland: we have our point: Austria agreed to give it away, if we make an independent state from lands attributed to Austria, we can create a buffer zone between the empires of Russia and Austria, so to prevent or at least delay future wars in the region.
Final decision: A republic named Yugoslavia will be created.
- Albania will become an independent nation, though it is a puppet of France.
- Constantinople will become an independent, secular, neutral, democratic city-state.
- Prussia's southern border is reduced.
- Poland becomes an independent state, who's monarch shall be decided by Denmark.
- Danish Gold Coast is expanded.
- Iceland will be de-militarized.
- Russia will withdraw from their invasion.
- Federal Republic of Yugoslavia created in Ottoman lands previously attributed to Austria.
- Map to be updated.